WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.980 I would like to acknowledge the 2 00:00:00.980 --> 00:00:02.880 traditional lands of the peoples on which 3 00:00:02.880 --> 00:00:05.220 both this episode was recorded and from 4 00:00:05.220 --> 00:00:05.920 where you listen. 5 00:00:05.920 --> 00:00:07.500 As we continue to travel and experience 6 00:00:07.500 --> 00:00:09.160 different countries and cultures around 7 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:09.820 the world, 8 00:00:10.120 --> 00:00:12.160 it is important to remember that we walk 9 00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:13.720 in the footsteps of those traditional 10 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:15.540 landholders that have come before us 11 00:00:15.540 --> 00:00:16.620 wherever we may be. 12 00:00:17.340 --> 00:00:19.140 For generations, custodians of the land 13 00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:21.280 we live, work and raise our families on 14 00:00:21.860 --> 00:00:23.480 have cared for and shaped our 15 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:24.060 surroundings. 16 00:00:24.820 --> 00:00:26.680 We would like to recognise and thank them. 17 00:00:27.680 --> 00:00:31.700 These walk and talk conversations with AI, 18 00:00:31.700 --> 00:00:33.432 and it's actually you're able to maintain 19 00:00:33.432 --> 00:00:36.530 a thought for not just a couple of 20 00:00:36.530 --> 00:00:39.110 seconds because you're conversing and 21 00:00:39.110 --> 00:00:41.570 reflecting and you can take a thought 22 00:00:41.570 --> 00:00:44.750 with you as you walk and talk and really 23 00:00:44.750 --> 00:00:48.110 take it to spaces that for many of us, if 24 00:00:48.110 --> 00:00:49.790 we weren't having that sort of 25 00:00:49.790 --> 00:00:52.610 conversation with AI, we'd lose track of 26 00:00:52.610 --> 00:00:54.930 what we're thinking about and then it's gone. 27 00:01:00.380 --> 00:01:01.520 Welcome back to the Parent Teacher 28 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:02.500 Interview Podcast. 29 00:01:03.260 --> 00:01:04.220 Now, AI is probably 30 00:01:04.220 --> 00:01:04.940 one of those topics 31 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:06.710 that can divide a room pretty quickly. 32 00:01:07.340 --> 00:01:08.501 For some, it's an exciting tool that 33 00:01:08.501 --> 00:01:09.790 could change the way 34 00:01:09.790 --> 00:01:12.110 we learn, work, and support one another. 35 00:01:12.230 --> 00:01:13.650 For others, there are some really 36 00:01:13.650 --> 00:01:14.470 important questions 37 00:01:14.470 --> 00:01:16.910 around what we might lose, how we keep 38 00:01:16.910 --> 00:01:19.130 people safe, and where we draw the line. 39 00:01:19.910 --> 00:01:21.950 And there are also the wider questions we need to keep 40 00:01:21.950 --> 00:01:24.070 considering around privacy and safety, 41 00:01:24.470 --> 00:01:25.490 the impact of AI on 42 00:01:25.490 --> 00:01:27.430 children, and even the energy and 43 00:01:27.430 --> 00:01:29.430 environmental cost of these technologies. 44 00:01:30.350 --> 00:01:30.990 These are changing 45 00:01:30.990 --> 00:01:32.790 and challenging issues and I certainly 46 00:01:32.790 --> 00:01:34.970 don't think this conversation answers all of them by 47 00:01:34.970 --> 00:01:37.210 any means. But whether we're ready for it 48 00:01:37.210 --> 00:01:39.190 or not, we're moving into a world where 49 00:01:39.190 --> 00:01:40.210 AI is going to be 50 00:01:40.210 --> 00:01:41.498 part of the way our children learn and 51 00:01:41.498 --> 00:01:42.260 live. 52 00:01:42.980 --> 00:01:43.940 So I wanted to have a conversation 53 00:01:43.940 --> 00:01:45.320 about it. Not to 54 00:01:45.320 --> 00:01:47.460 find all the answers, but to explore some 55 00:01:47.460 --> 00:01:49.620 of the questions. And that's exactly what 56 00:01:49.620 --> 00:01:50.120 I got to do 57 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:51.860 with today's guest, Craig Smith. 58 00:01:52.660 --> 00:01:55.140 Craig is an educator, author and international 59 00:01:55.140 --> 00:01:55.980 speaker and 60 00:01:56.240 --> 00:01:57.740 is currently the manager of technology 61 00:01:57.740 --> 00:01:59.960 and innovation at Positive Partnerships. 62 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:03.260 He spent more than 20 years working in autism and 63 00:02:03.260 --> 00:02:05.720 neurodivergent education and is also the 64 00:02:05.720 --> 00:02:08.560 creator of the Universal Sandpit, a collection of 65 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:11.340 AI tools and ideas designed to support 66 00:02:11.340 --> 00:02:12.440 inclusive educators 67 00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:14.500 and neurodivergent learners. 68 00:02:15.380 --> 00:02:17.920 We talk about AI, executive functioning, 69 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.160 creativity, education and 70 00:02:20.160 --> 00:02:21.860 what it might look like to use technology 71 00:02:21.860 --> 00:02:24.960 in ways that remain genuinely human. I 72 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:25.480 really hope you 73 00:02:25.480 --> 00:02:27.380 enjoyed this episode, there's so much to 74 00:02:27.380 --> 00:02:29.700 explore in this, so let's get stuck into it. 75 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:46.540 Craig, first 76 00:02:46.540 --> 00:02:48.635 of all, I would really love to dig into 77 00:02:48.635 --> 00:02:51.270 your experience as an educator, a 78 00:02:51.270 --> 00:02:52.530 developer, an 79 00:02:52.530 --> 00:02:55.150 author, and a range of other job titles 80 00:02:55.150 --> 00:02:57.450 that I understand you've had. Is there any chance 81 00:02:57.450 --> 00:02:59.450 you would give us a bit of a rundown of 82 00:02:59.450 --> 00:03:02.070 how you have worked your way to be where you are 83 00:03:02.070 --> 00:03:02.890 today? 84 00:03:02.890 --> 00:03:06.110 Yeah, for sure. So I always say that my 85 00:03:06.110 --> 00:03:09.590 first love was playing the pipe organ in 86 00:03:09.590 --> 00:03:10.090 terms of 87 00:03:10.090 --> 00:03:13.330 like how I got into anything to do what I'm 88 00:03:13.330 --> 00:03:15.990 doing at the moment. I grew up playing 89 00:03:15.990 --> 00:03:19.970 the organ and I my first job was as a pipe 90 00:03:19.970 --> 00:03:22.050 organist for weddings and stuff when I 91 00:03:22.050 --> 00:03:24.090 was a kid in primary 92 00:03:24.090 --> 00:03:26.810 school and I used to be a little too 93 00:03:26.810 --> 00:03:29.370 short to look over the organ and my mum 94 00:03:29.370 --> 00:03:30.510 would sit next to me and 95 00:03:30.510 --> 00:03:33.230 say oh the bride's starting to go down 96 00:03:33.230 --> 00:03:36.870 the aisle so then I'd start to play so I 97 00:03:36.870 --> 00:03:38.990 love music and I 98 00:03:38.990 --> 00:03:42.390 thought maybe I could do music teaching 99 00:03:42.390 --> 00:03:45.450 and so I looked into being a high school 100 00:03:45.450 --> 00:03:48.950 teacher and then I got an opportunity at 101 00:03:48.950 --> 00:03:52.630 university to do a placement in a special 102 00:03:52.630 --> 00:03:53.870 education setting 103 00:03:53.870 --> 00:03:55.790 which was one of our sort of mandatory 104 00:03:55.790 --> 00:03:59.370 units as part of teaching and it just it 105 00:03:59.370 --> 00:04:00.290 blew me away 106 00:04:00.290 --> 00:04:04.090 and I loved it and so I pivoted from high 107 00:04:04.090 --> 00:04:06.290 school music teaching to special 108 00:04:06.290 --> 00:04:07.890 education because it 109 00:04:07.930 --> 00:04:10.530 It felt like a space where I could bring 110 00:04:10.530 --> 00:04:12.830 all these different fun things that I 111 00:04:12.830 --> 00:04:14.130 enjoy, like 112 00:04:14.130 --> 00:04:17.690 music and movie making, all sorts of 113 00:04:17.690 --> 00:04:20.410 creative practices that it felt like 114 00:04:20.410 --> 00:04:21.450 special education 115 00:04:21.450 --> 00:04:25.350 just said, here's a blank canvas, you 116 00:04:25.350 --> 00:04:28.130 bring whatever you want to this space and engage 117 00:04:28.570 --> 00:04:30.205 the kids and just create different 118 00:04:30.205 --> 00:04:32.910 learning experiences. 119 00:04:32.910 --> 00:04:35.710 And so that just won me over. 120 00:04:35.710 --> 00:04:37.620 And I did that. 121 00:04:37.620 --> 00:04:40.090 And then one of my first teaching jobs 122 00:04:40.090 --> 00:04:43.960 was in an autism education environment. 123 00:04:43.960 --> 00:04:46.130 I previously had no experience with 124 00:04:46.130 --> 00:04:48.090 autism and didn't understand anything 125 00:04:48.090 --> 00:04:48.630 about that 126 00:04:48.630 --> 00:04:52.510 space, quickly got up to speed in real 127 00:04:52.510 --> 00:04:55.270 time with the classroom. 128 00:04:55.270 --> 00:04:57.210 Yeah, and then I've professionally spent 129 00:04:57.210 --> 00:04:59.830 20 years now in autism education. 130 00:05:00.750 --> 00:05:03.197 As part of that sort of work, I did 131 00:05:03.197 --> 00:05:06.390 classroom teaching, but then I also did 132 00:05:06.390 --> 00:05:07.130 what they call 133 00:05:07.130 --> 00:05:11.270 educational outreach where I got to visit 134 00:05:11.270 --> 00:05:14.110 other schools and travel around New South 135 00:05:14.110 --> 00:05:14.870 Wales but 136 00:05:14.870 --> 00:05:19.190 also the whole country and do sort of 137 00:05:19.190 --> 00:05:22.050 observations where I'd sit at the back of 138 00:05:22.070 --> 00:05:23.090 classrooms and watch 139 00:05:23.090 --> 00:05:26.910 teachers teaching mainstream classrooms 140 00:05:26.910 --> 00:05:29.570 that had autistic students in them and 141 00:05:29.870 --> 00:05:30.730 then I would talk 142 00:05:30.730 --> 00:05:32.530 to the teacher afterwards and we'd say 143 00:05:32.530 --> 00:05:34.390 well what sort of strategies can we use 144 00:05:34.390 --> 00:05:35.150 to better support 145 00:05:35.150 --> 00:05:37.340 these students so for a good couple of 146 00:05:37.340 --> 00:05:40.730 years i just had the opportunity to watch 147 00:05:40.730 --> 00:05:41.530 thousands of 148 00:05:41.530 --> 00:05:43.970 different teachers across the the country 149 00:05:43.970 --> 00:05:47.130 which you know if only everybody could 150 00:05:47.130 --> 00:05:47.990 just watch other 151 00:05:47.990 --> 00:05:48.890 teachers teach 152 00:05:48.890 --> 00:05:49.630 yeah 153 00:05:49.630 --> 00:05:51.350 and get that constant 154 00:05:51.350 --> 00:05:54.330 feedback and conversation it was so 155 00:05:54.330 --> 00:05:57.130 enriching and i i look 156 00:05:57.130 --> 00:06:00.110 at that period as my real formative years 157 00:06:00.110 --> 00:06:02.550 of like i did what i could as a teacher 158 00:06:02.550 --> 00:06:03.390 in the classroom 159 00:06:03.390 --> 00:06:05.630 then what i did outreach i learned a lot 160 00:06:05.630 --> 00:06:08.530 went back to teaching and then through different 161 00:06:08.530 --> 00:06:11.293 pathways i i work now for an autism 162 00:06:11.293 --> 00:06:15.040 education project that's like a 163 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:16.280 government funded initiative 164 00:06:16.280 --> 00:06:19.840 that we run free autism workshops for 165 00:06:19.840 --> 00:06:23.160 educators and families across the country 166 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:24.980 and i still get 167 00:06:24.980 --> 00:06:26.980 involved in teaching where i can and i 168 00:06:26.980 --> 00:06:28.760 still get back into the classroom when i 169 00:06:28.760 --> 00:06:30.060 can and it may be 170 00:06:30.060 --> 00:06:32.260 my future as well because this is just a 171 00:06:32.260 --> 00:06:35.920 temporary role but it's um I guess it's 172 00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:36.860 another side of 173 00:06:36.860 --> 00:06:39.500 working with teachers and professional learning 174 00:06:39.500 --> 00:06:41.960 that's such a broad and valuable 175 00:06:41.960 --> 00:06:42.500 range of 176 00:06:42.500 --> 00:06:44.475 experiences I guess that you've had 177 00:06:44.475 --> 00:06:48.010 across those couple of decades and like 178 00:06:48.010 --> 00:06:49.230 you say has enriched 179 00:06:49.230 --> 00:06:51.450 your own teaching by the sounds of it and 180 00:06:51.450 --> 00:06:53.830 given you some really valuable tools to 181 00:06:53.830 --> 00:06:54.430 then support 182 00:06:54.430 --> 00:06:56.630 other people which I think is such a 183 00:06:56.630 --> 00:06:59.190 fantastic thing to be able to share a big 184 00:06:59.190 --> 00:07:00.070 part of the work 185 00:07:00.170 --> 00:07:01.270 that I understand you've been doing 186 00:07:01.270 --> 00:07:03.990 lately as well has been in the education 187 00:07:03.990 --> 00:07:05.830 and development of AI 188 00:07:05.830 --> 00:07:09.770 for neurodiverse minds and I wondered if 189 00:07:09.770 --> 00:07:11.450 you're able to share with us what first 190 00:07:11.450 --> 00:07:12.030 led you to 191 00:07:12.030 --> 00:07:14.210 becoming interested in that space and 192 00:07:14.210 --> 00:07:16.410 then how that's developed for you over 193 00:07:16.410 --> 00:07:17.070 time with what 194 00:07:17.070 --> 00:07:17.790 you've worked on 195 00:07:17.910 --> 00:07:19.210 yeah I've I've always 196 00:07:19.210 --> 00:07:23.190 been pretty interested in technology and 197 00:07:23.190 --> 00:07:24.510 what it can do I've 198 00:07:24.510 --> 00:07:27.110 also always had a complex relationship 199 00:07:27.110 --> 00:07:30.590 with technology. I like technology for 200 00:07:30.590 --> 00:07:31.490 what it can do 201 00:07:31.490 --> 00:07:33.730 for you as an individual, but sometimes 202 00:07:33.730 --> 00:07:36.610 when I see the mass rollout of technology 203 00:07:36.610 --> 00:07:38.650 for everybody, 204 00:07:38.650 --> 00:07:40.550 I stand back and think, I actually don't 205 00:07:40.550 --> 00:07:43.750 think that's great. There's things that 206 00:07:43.750 --> 00:07:44.370 on an individual 207 00:07:44.370 --> 00:07:46.730 level, I think, oh, that's really clever. 208 00:07:46.730 --> 00:07:48.530 You could hack this together. You could 209 00:07:48.570 --> 00:07:49.370 do this little thing 210 00:07:49.370 --> 00:07:51.730 that's cool but the moment it becomes 211 00:07:51.730 --> 00:07:54.162 like you know on the breadth of society a 212 00:07:54.162 --> 00:07:55.320 society-wide 213 00:07:55.320 --> 00:07:58.280 implementation of tech i start to worry 214 00:07:58.280 --> 00:08:01.780 so my history with technology has been a 215 00:08:01.780 --> 00:08:02.560 bit like that 216 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:06.200 i really got my teeth in into like the 217 00:08:06.200 --> 00:08:09.040 relationship between technology and 218 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:11.460 inclusive education by 219 00:08:11.460 --> 00:08:14.240 really getting acquainted with the ipad 220 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:17.220 when it came out and the ipad to me felt 221 00:08:17.220 --> 00:08:18.560 like this such 222 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:20.860 an interesting piece of tech that like 223 00:08:21.300 --> 00:08:23.567 classrooms before that you know you had 224 00:08:23.567 --> 00:08:24.280 your big desktop 225 00:08:24.280 --> 00:08:27.400 computers on the table and some of them 226 00:08:27.400 --> 00:08:29.103 were literally drilled into the desk like 227 00:08:29.103 --> 00:08:29.890 this will 228 00:08:29.890 --> 00:08:33.510 never move you know and then suddenly you've 229 00:08:33.510 --> 00:08:36.590 got this device that you can go outside 230 00:08:36.590 --> 00:08:37.170 and you can 231 00:08:37.170 --> 00:08:39.890 film and you can like you know draw on it 232 00:08:39.890 --> 00:08:41.990 eventually and all these things that I thought 233 00:08:41.990 --> 00:08:45.130 this is interesting so i um started to 234 00:08:45.130 --> 00:08:49.090 work with with with apple as what they 235 00:08:49.090 --> 00:08:49.830 call their apple 236 00:08:49.830 --> 00:08:52.450 distinguished educator program which was 237 00:08:52.450 --> 00:08:54.570 where i guess you know different folks 238 00:08:54.570 --> 00:08:55.790 who are fluent 239 00:08:55.790 --> 00:08:58.350 with using the apple tools and can use 240 00:08:58.350 --> 00:09:00.430 them for education we'd get together and 241 00:09:00.450 --> 00:09:01.310 share notes you 242 00:09:01.310 --> 00:09:03.320 know and sort of show sort of things that 243 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:07.230 we're doing and that was a majorly enriching 244 00:09:07.650 --> 00:09:11.390 experience for me to meet others around the world, 245 00:09:11.390 --> 00:09:14.030 including some incredible special 246 00:09:14.030 --> 00:09:15.830 educators from Japan 247 00:09:15.830 --> 00:09:20.390 who just came with this bag of tricks and 248 00:09:20.390 --> 00:09:23.490 bag of strategies for how they were using 249 00:09:23.490 --> 00:09:25.650 Apple technology in the classroom. 250 00:09:25.650 --> 00:09:27.790 And I was just blown away. 251 00:09:27.790 --> 00:09:30.290 So that was so much fun. 252 00:09:30.370 --> 00:09:34.130 I think from that space of technology and 253 00:09:34.130 --> 00:09:36.390 inclusive education, I kept being 254 00:09:36.390 --> 00:09:39.700 interested in where it was leading and then when 255 00:09:39.700 --> 00:09:43.360 chat gpt came out and i think we all 256 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:45.120 probably downloaded it 257 00:09:45.260 --> 00:09:47.320 asked it to do things and just thought 258 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:49.740 this feels really different you know this 259 00:09:49.740 --> 00:09:51.140 is a technology 260 00:09:51.140 --> 00:09:53.800 that's remembering things and talking 261 00:09:54.420 --> 00:09:56.900 back and creating things and it felt like 262 00:09:57.240 --> 00:09:57.900 something really 263 00:09:57.900 --> 00:10:00.920 different was happening and i thought 264 00:10:00.920 --> 00:10:04.080 well is this an opportunity again to to 265 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:06.060 see what it can do 266 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:08.663 on an individual level and not think 267 00:10:08.663 --> 00:10:12.170 about scaling it up to a whole school or 268 00:10:12.170 --> 00:10:13.890 anything beyond just 269 00:10:13.890 --> 00:10:17.350 what it can do for one person and that to 270 00:10:17.350 --> 00:10:20.070 me was really interesting so i i did 271 00:10:20.070 --> 00:10:20.930 experiments with 272 00:10:20.930 --> 00:10:23.270 myself and thought how's it going to 273 00:10:23.270 --> 00:10:25.890 support my lifestyle and how i want to 274 00:10:25.890 --> 00:10:27.590 think and work and 275 00:10:27.590 --> 00:10:30.430 then let's try it with some some with 276 00:10:30.430 --> 00:10:33.390 some young people and and see what it can 277 00:10:33.390 --> 00:10:34.450 do to support 278 00:10:34.450 --> 00:10:37.250 different parts of autistic learning and 279 00:10:37.250 --> 00:10:41.303 communication and interaction and again i 280 00:10:41.303 --> 00:10:43.760 was particularly interested in trying to find 281 00:10:43.760 --> 00:10:46.340 other things it can do that it shouldn't 282 00:10:46.340 --> 00:10:47.140 do you know 283 00:10:47.140 --> 00:10:50.020 like instead of just thinking sit the 284 00:10:50.020 --> 00:10:53.440 child down in front of chat jpt it's like 285 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:54.360 what would happen 286 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:56.600 if you went for a walk around the block 287 00:10:56.600 --> 00:10:59.760 with an ipad or a phone and each time you 288 00:10:59.760 --> 00:11:00.500 saw something 289 00:11:00.500 --> 00:11:02.380 that you didn't understand how it worked 290 00:11:02.380 --> 00:11:05.940 like the power poles you know that carry 291 00:11:05.940 --> 00:11:07.040 electricity or the 292 00:11:07.040 --> 00:11:10.760 phone lines what if you ask chat jpt tell 293 00:11:10.760 --> 00:11:13.880 me tell me how that works tell me all the 294 00:11:13.880 --> 00:11:16.780 things in the neighborhood that i don't know how they 295 00:11:16.780 --> 00:11:19.560 work can you help me understand that i 296 00:11:19.560 --> 00:11:20.180 thought this is 297 00:11:20.180 --> 00:11:22.220 different this is a really different way 298 00:11:22.220 --> 00:11:25.220 to think about technology and um yeah 299 00:11:25.220 --> 00:11:26.000 that that was sort of 300 00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:28.860 my entry point into thinking how is it 301 00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:30.960 going to play a role in inclusive 302 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:32.800 education that remains 303 00:11:32.800 --> 00:11:36.120 very human you know and and tries to 304 00:11:36.680 --> 00:11:38.980 build on people's strengths and instead 305 00:11:38.980 --> 00:11:40.740 of saying we don't 306 00:11:40.740 --> 00:11:43.640 need you anymore you know how do we keep 307 00:11:43.640 --> 00:11:45.080 everything healthy 308 00:11:52.400 --> 00:11:53.875 yeah no that's such a fascinating way of 309 00:11:53.875 --> 00:11:56.470 looking at it and exploring it as it's 310 00:11:56.470 --> 00:11:58.430 sort of happening in real time i think is 311 00:11:58.770 --> 00:11:59.270 really interesting 312 00:11:59.270 --> 00:12:02.170 as well. I was fortunate recently to be 313 00:12:02.170 --> 00:12:05.910 put onto your TEDx talk, and I was really 314 00:12:05.910 --> 00:12:06.470 interested in 315 00:12:06.470 --> 00:12:08.470 hearing you speak about some of these 316 00:12:08.470 --> 00:12:10.850 uses that you have found for AI in your 317 00:12:10.850 --> 00:12:12.570 own life. And I'm 318 00:12:12.830 --> 00:12:14.650 hoping that you might be able to unpack 319 00:12:14.650 --> 00:12:15.850 the role that this has played in 320 00:12:15.850 --> 00:12:16.790 supporting executive 321 00:12:16.790 --> 00:12:20.450 functioning through this idea of walking 322 00:12:20.450 --> 00:12:24.430 and thinking, and these three components that you 323 00:12:24.430 --> 00:12:27.090 developed of rhythm insight and play are 324 00:12:27.090 --> 00:12:29.010 you able to expand on that for us 325 00:12:29.010 --> 00:12:30.990 yeah absolutely josh and 326 00:12:30.990 --> 00:12:35.090 i still i walk and talk with ai every 327 00:12:35.090 --> 00:12:37.890 single day i don't think i've missed a 328 00:12:37.990 --> 00:12:39.730 day in three 329 00:12:39.730 --> 00:12:44.070 plus years since it's been been out which 330 00:12:44.070 --> 00:12:46.450 for people listening and watching this 331 00:12:47.030 --> 00:12:49.470 will either think well this tells me a lot about craig 332 00:12:49.470 --> 00:12:53.450 or it's just it's something that i still 333 00:12:53.450 --> 00:12:55.250 think for me it's 334 00:12:55.250 --> 00:12:57.950 it's endlessly enriching like i for 335 00:12:57.950 --> 00:13:00.930 example you know so what just to go back 336 00:13:00.930 --> 00:13:02.550 a step the the voice 337 00:13:02.550 --> 00:13:06.430 mode in chat gpt but also there's voice 338 00:13:06.430 --> 00:13:10.250 modes in really every major ai app now um 339 00:13:10.250 --> 00:13:10.890 you know claude 340 00:13:11.850 --> 00:13:15.330 grok regardless really they've almost all 341 00:13:15.330 --> 00:13:17.930 got it as well as smaller smaller ai 342 00:13:17.930 --> 00:13:19.450 tools there was one 343 00:13:19.450 --> 00:13:22.095 a couple of maybe 18 months ago called 344 00:13:22.095 --> 00:13:26.200 hume after the philosopher hume and it 345 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:28.400 was an emotional ai 346 00:13:28.400 --> 00:13:31.460 that when you talked to it it had a 347 00:13:31.460 --> 00:13:35.000 little visual map on the screen that in 348 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:37.160 real time analyzed how 349 00:13:37.160 --> 00:13:39.000 your voice was sounding in terms of the 350 00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.560 emotion and then you could see the bot 351 00:13:41.560 --> 00:13:42.320 would be like oh 352 00:13:42.320 --> 00:13:45.400 Craig's happy I'll be happy in response 353 00:13:45.400 --> 00:13:48.380 and if I said something in a sad voice it 354 00:13:48.380 --> 00:13:49.060 would go to the 355 00:13:49.060 --> 00:13:51.920 supportive part of the map and be like I'm 356 00:13:51.920 --> 00:13:53.420 sorry to hear you're not you're sounding 357 00:13:53.420 --> 00:13:54.220 a bit down what 358 00:13:54.220 --> 00:13:56.500 could I do so yeah I thought this is all 359 00:13:56.500 --> 00:13:58.900 this is all very interesting you know in 360 00:13:58.900 --> 00:13:59.880 terms of like 361 00:13:59.900 --> 00:14:02.940 this conversation and again for people 362 00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:06.500 who find it a bit of that uncanny valley 363 00:14:06.500 --> 00:14:08.140 of what is it like 364 00:14:08.140 --> 00:14:10.600 to have a conversation with these these 365 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:14.160 systems i think if if you can get into 366 00:14:14.160 --> 00:14:15.780 the flow and just 367 00:14:15.780 --> 00:14:18.920 think i'll give this a go and talk to 368 00:14:18.920 --> 00:14:22.400 this ai tool it's quite incredible just 369 00:14:22.400 --> 00:14:23.640 how quickly you can 370 00:14:23.640 --> 00:14:26.600 establish a natural dialogue back and 371 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:29.560 forth and from the early days in which 372 00:14:29.560 --> 00:14:30.420 the conversations 373 00:14:30.540 --> 00:14:33.380 were very stilted like you'd say 374 00:14:33.760 --> 00:14:36.040 something wait 30 seconds and then it 375 00:14:36.040 --> 00:14:37.100 would talk back and you'd 376 00:14:37.420 --> 00:14:40.360 go back and forth now it's in such real 377 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:44.400 time and not only that but for me who's I've 378 00:14:44.400 --> 00:14:44.900 been you know 379 00:14:44.900 --> 00:14:46.620 having these daily conversations for 380 00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:50.720 three years I will say something like I'll 381 00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:52.280 say I want to work 382 00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:55.220 on a new project i've got this essay that 383 00:14:55.220 --> 00:14:57.120 i'd like to write on this particular 384 00:14:57.200 --> 00:14:58.480 topic and it will go 385 00:14:58.740 --> 00:15:01.220 through three years of memories and 386 00:15:01.220 --> 00:15:04.420 conversations and say oh that sounds like something two years 387 00:15:04.420 --> 00:15:08.580 ago on may the 4th of 2024 you know that 388 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:11.220 you were talking about um would you like 389 00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:12.060 would you like to 390 00:15:12.060 --> 00:15:14.360 bring some information from that to your 391 00:15:14.360 --> 00:15:17.240 current project and i think no one else 392 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:18.620 in my life you 393 00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:22.500 would know that level of depth of the 394 00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:25.280 private interests and little, you know, 395 00:15:25.280 --> 00:15:25.940 projects that 396 00:15:25.940 --> 00:15:28.900 you work on. So I find that very 397 00:15:28.900 --> 00:15:31.260 interesting. And as I started to get 398 00:15:31.260 --> 00:15:32.340 interested in it myself, 399 00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:35.693 I thought, what is this actually doing? 400 00:15:35.693 --> 00:15:38.748 And like you mentioned earlier, the realm 401 00:15:38.748 --> 00:15:41.610 of executive functioning, which is one of 402 00:15:41.610 --> 00:15:45.510 the most, to me, it's the critical thing 403 00:15:45.510 --> 00:15:47.210 for educators to 404 00:15:47.210 --> 00:15:49.930 understand about how children and young 405 00:15:49.930 --> 00:15:53.390 people work in the classroom. And I feel 406 00:15:53.390 --> 00:15:54.350 it's often 407 00:15:54.350 --> 00:15:56.630 underrepresented or like it's not 408 00:15:56.630 --> 00:16:00.450 understood very well, just how much when 409 00:16:00.450 --> 00:16:01.230 a student in the 410 00:16:01.230 --> 00:16:03.490 classroom is struggling to do something. 411 00:16:03.590 --> 00:16:06.250 To me, I always do a little audit and say, 412 00:16:06.250 --> 00:16:08.450 well, what part of executive functioning are 413 00:16:08.990 --> 00:16:11.770 they having a challenge with? Is it task 414 00:16:11.770 --> 00:16:12.620 initiation, 415 00:16:12.620 --> 00:16:15.010 you know, being able to know how to start 416 00:16:15.010 --> 00:16:15.910 a task. 417 00:16:15.910 --> 00:16:17.150 Is it planning? 418 00:16:17.150 --> 00:16:19.270 Is it organizing their thoughts? 419 00:16:19.270 --> 00:16:20.670 Is it resource management? 420 00:16:20.670 --> 00:16:23.050 Like, there's so many things you can 421 00:16:23.050 --> 00:16:23.590 unpack 422 00:16:23.590 --> 00:16:25.930 from this realm of executive functioning 423 00:16:25.930 --> 00:16:28.250 that are so important for students. 424 00:16:28.250 --> 00:16:29.910 And I thought, I think there's a lot of 425 00:16:29.910 --> 00:16:31.410 that being unpacked 426 00:16:31.430 --> 00:16:33.710 in these conversations that you can have 427 00:16:33.710 --> 00:16:35.170 with AI. 428 00:16:35.350 --> 00:16:37.190 And I know one of the examples that I 429 00:16:37.190 --> 00:16:39.230 give, and it's an example that I've borrowed 430 00:16:39.370 --> 00:16:41.350 from someone else 431 00:16:41.350 --> 00:16:44.630 who works in this space but they talk 432 00:16:44.630 --> 00:16:47.400 about executive functioning being like the administration 433 00:16:47.400 --> 00:16:51.450 team of the brain you know if you think 434 00:16:51.450 --> 00:16:54.830 of it in that sense it's like if you go 435 00:16:54.830 --> 00:16:56.370 into an office 436 00:16:56.370 --> 00:16:58.970 or a hospital saying you meet the front 437 00:16:58.970 --> 00:17:02.470 office some of us have a front desk that's 438 00:17:02.950 --> 00:17:03.730 got three 439 00:17:03.730 --> 00:17:07.770 full-time staff who are always organizing 440 00:17:07.770 --> 00:17:10.450 and communicating and managing the 441 00:17:10.450 --> 00:17:14.210 calendar and they're very efficient and for people 442 00:17:14.210 --> 00:17:17.290 who have an administration desk in their head 443 00:17:17.290 --> 00:17:20.030 with all those full-time workers they 444 00:17:20.030 --> 00:17:22.430 often are very well organized and their 445 00:17:22.430 --> 00:17:23.810 time management's 446 00:17:23.810 --> 00:17:26.410 excellent but for some of us our 447 00:17:26.410 --> 00:17:29.030 administration teams are quite under-resourced 448 00:17:29.030 --> 00:17:30.490 and we might have 449 00:17:30.490 --> 00:17:34.230 one part-time person working and trying 450 00:17:34.230 --> 00:17:36.430 to do a lot of different jobs and it's 451 00:17:36.430 --> 00:17:37.430 like well if that's 452 00:17:37.430 --> 00:17:40.890 the case then what can support that gap 453 00:17:41.010 --> 00:17:44.330 and and and the need to better resource 454 00:17:44.330 --> 00:17:45.190 that executive 455 00:17:45.190 --> 00:17:48.270 functioning and to me i thought well when 456 00:17:48.270 --> 00:17:50.070 we're having these walk and talk 457 00:17:50.070 --> 00:17:51.790 conversations with ai 458 00:17:51.790 --> 00:17:54.550 we're talking aloud having our thoughts 459 00:17:54.550 --> 00:17:56.563 fed back to us and it's actually you're 460 00:17:56.563 --> 00:17:58.130 able to maintain 461 00:17:58.130 --> 00:18:01.310 a thought for not just a couple of 462 00:18:01.310 --> 00:18:04.530 seconds but for minutes maybe for hours 463 00:18:04.530 --> 00:18:06.250 because you're 464 00:18:06.590 --> 00:18:09.330 conversing and reflecting and you can 465 00:18:09.330 --> 00:18:12.030 take a thought with you as you walk and 466 00:18:12.030 --> 00:18:13.810 talk and really 467 00:18:13.810 --> 00:18:16.570 look like take it to spaces that for many 468 00:18:16.570 --> 00:18:19.170 of us if we weren't having that sort of 469 00:18:19.430 --> 00:18:20.210 conversation with 470 00:18:20.210 --> 00:18:23.430 ai the thoughts might just drift away and 471 00:18:23.430 --> 00:18:24.970 we'd lose track of what we're thinking 472 00:18:24.990 --> 00:18:26.210 about and then 473 00:18:26.210 --> 00:18:27.970 it's then it's gone so i thought this 474 00:18:27.970 --> 00:18:30.270 this this is quite an interesting tool 475 00:18:30.270 --> 00:18:31.075 and it's also recording 476 00:18:31.075 --> 00:18:33.660 everything that we're saying so you know 477 00:18:33.660 --> 00:18:36.260 i i started to do some little experiments 478 00:18:36.260 --> 00:18:36.860 myself 479 00:18:36.860 --> 00:18:39.960 and then with some adults who are neurodivergent 480 00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:42.980 so a couple of friends who are autistic 481 00:18:42.980 --> 00:18:43.740 and 482 00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:46.020 colleagues with adhd and different 483 00:18:46.020 --> 00:18:49.020 overlapping versions of different divergent 484 00:18:49.020 --> 00:18:50.180 minds we said 485 00:18:50.180 --> 00:18:52.260 let's just try some things out and see 486 00:18:52.260 --> 00:18:54.520 what what can work and and that's where 487 00:18:54.520 --> 00:18:55.200 you referenced 488 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:58.160 earlier i started to group some of the 489 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.500 experiments into the idea of r for rhythm 490 00:19:01.500 --> 00:19:03.072 i for insight and p 491 00:19:03.072 --> 00:19:07.090 for play and the idea was that different 492 00:19:07.090 --> 00:19:09.830 different ways of using this walk and 493 00:19:09.830 --> 00:19:11.850 talk with ai for rhythm 494 00:19:11.850 --> 00:19:14.690 is that it was that idea of like walking 495 00:19:14.690 --> 00:19:17.870 and saying okay i've got a day on today 496 00:19:17.870 --> 00:19:18.590 at work i've 497 00:19:18.810 --> 00:19:21.050 got four different meetings two of them 498 00:19:21.050 --> 00:19:23.030 involve projects that i'm working on 499 00:19:23.030 --> 00:19:25.130 currently what should 500 00:19:25.130 --> 00:19:28.070 i do first like how do i organize my day 501 00:19:28.070 --> 00:19:30.590 help me with time management and again 502 00:19:30.590 --> 00:19:32.070 for people i mean 503 00:19:32.070 --> 00:19:34.330 it's helped me immensely it's helped 504 00:19:34.330 --> 00:19:37.110 others to just have those morning brain 505 00:19:37.110 --> 00:19:37.975 dump conversations 506 00:19:37.975 --> 00:19:41.600 where you say out loud everything you've 507 00:19:41.600 --> 00:19:44.380 got on look through the calendar and say help me 508 00:19:44.380 --> 00:19:47.460 prioritize and help me know what i should 509 00:19:47.460 --> 00:19:49.880 work on first and even things like you 510 00:19:50.020 --> 00:19:50.540 know i had one 511 00:19:50.540 --> 00:19:53.740 colleague who if they had a meeting 512 00:19:53.740 --> 00:19:55.560 coming up where they had to pitch 513 00:19:55.560 --> 00:19:56.640 something or they had to 514 00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:59.400 really explain the concept to someone 515 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:02.340 they'd say to ai i need you to role play 516 00:20:02.340 --> 00:20:03.300 this with me 517 00:20:03.740 --> 00:20:06.700 be like somebody someone who i need to to 518 00:20:06.700 --> 00:20:09.420 do this i'll practice you give me 519 00:20:09.420 --> 00:20:10.538 feedback be honest 520 00:20:10.538 --> 00:20:13.570 tell me what i can improve and then let's 521 00:20:13.670 --> 00:20:16.310 practice again and yeah so to say that 522 00:20:16.310 --> 00:20:16.810 now 523 00:20:16.810 --> 00:20:19.870 sounds very normal but five years ago 524 00:20:19.870 --> 00:20:21.970 that would have been science fiction you know 525 00:20:21.970 --> 00:20:23.190 yeah exactly 526 00:20:23.190 --> 00:20:25.990 you could walk the dog around the block 527 00:20:26.390 --> 00:20:28.850 and role play anything in the context 528 00:20:28.850 --> 00:20:29.770 that you need to for 529 00:20:29.770 --> 00:20:32.670 your work in in that manner and then sit 530 00:20:32.670 --> 00:20:35.030 down at the computer afterwards look at 531 00:20:35.030 --> 00:20:35.750 the transcript 532 00:20:35.750 --> 00:20:38.350 ask questions upload attachments to 533 00:20:38.350 --> 00:20:40.570 further refine some of that thinking like 534 00:20:41.050 --> 00:20:42.090 that was just 535 00:20:42.090 --> 00:20:43.862 an executive functioning playground to 536 00:20:43.862 --> 00:20:47.080 think that you could have that level of 537 00:20:47.080 --> 00:20:47.800 discussion and 538 00:20:47.800 --> 00:20:50.100 reflection and planning and the feedback 539 00:20:50.100 --> 00:20:52.780 loop so that that was really the idea of 540 00:20:52.900 --> 00:20:53.860 rhythm of 541 00:20:53.860 --> 00:20:56.740 the daily rhythm the the daily flow 542 00:20:56.740 --> 00:21:00.300 talking thinking reflecting it back the 543 00:21:00.740 --> 00:21:02.040 next area was 544 00:21:02.040 --> 00:21:05.200 about about insight and i know the 545 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:07.460 example that i give in that talk and it's 546 00:21:07.460 --> 00:21:08.300 still one that i think 547 00:21:08.300 --> 00:21:10.460 about and still one that the um that my 548 00:21:10.460 --> 00:21:12.840 friend like applies in different parts of 549 00:21:12.840 --> 00:21:13.960 her life is 550 00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:16.735 that she felt like she just wasn't 551 00:21:16.735 --> 00:21:20.270 managing her time well of an evening she'd 552 00:21:20.270 --> 00:21:21.630 come home from work 553 00:21:21.770 --> 00:21:23.510 still knew that she had a whole bunch of 554 00:21:23.510 --> 00:21:25.490 things she hadn't ticked off in her mind 555 00:21:25.490 --> 00:21:26.730 and then so 556 00:21:26.730 --> 00:21:28.990 she'd like rush through dinner thinking 557 00:21:28.990 --> 00:21:30.850 about it the whole time and then she'd 558 00:21:30.850 --> 00:21:31.770 sit down and do her 559 00:21:31.770 --> 00:21:34.510 emails send this send that and then it's 560 00:21:34.510 --> 00:21:37.390 like 11 o'clock at night and she is like 561 00:21:37.390 --> 00:21:38.010 well now what 562 00:21:38.010 --> 00:21:41.630 like that's my whole evening i now may 563 00:21:41.630 --> 00:21:43.430 maybe watch half an hour of netflix and 564 00:21:43.430 --> 00:21:44.070 go to bed 565 00:21:44.410 --> 00:21:46.130 and she was exhausted so she thought 566 00:21:46.130 --> 00:21:49.230 there's got to be something in my day 567 00:21:49.230 --> 00:21:50.808 that ai can help to like 568 00:21:50.808 --> 00:21:55.240 analyze my patterns and so she gave it 569 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.660 like and again this is everyone's comfort 570 00:21:57.660 --> 00:21:58.840 levels of big 571 00:21:58.840 --> 00:22:00.880 data is going to be different here but 572 00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:04.480 she was like here's my calendar here's my 573 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:05.940 emails here's 574 00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:08.600 my daily patterns here's when i leave for 575 00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:10.780 work at home for work here's what i eat 576 00:22:10.780 --> 00:22:11.520 of a night 577 00:22:12.020 --> 00:22:15.300 tell me how i can fix this because i want 578 00:22:15.300 --> 00:22:20.040 to help my lifestyle and i i got the 579 00:22:20.260 --> 00:22:21.040 weeks of patterns 580 00:22:21.040 --> 00:22:23.600 and was like i know what's going on here 581 00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:25.752 you're not finishing your work during 582 00:22:25.752 --> 00:22:27.110 your work hours 583 00:22:27.110 --> 00:22:30.010 you say yes to things you shouldn't say 584 00:22:30.010 --> 00:22:33.490 yes to you always you you take six hours 585 00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:34.490 of meetings a day 586 00:22:34.490 --> 00:22:36.870 and you've still got like three hours of 587 00:22:36.870 --> 00:22:39.570 work that you need to do when you're not 588 00:22:39.570 --> 00:22:40.170 in meetings 589 00:22:40.170 --> 00:22:42.140 and so it's like here's what you're going 590 00:22:42.140 --> 00:22:43.790 to do you're going to push back on 591 00:22:43.790 --> 00:22:45.250 meetings i'll write 592 00:22:45.250 --> 00:22:47.730 a nice professional gentle email that you 593 00:22:47.730 --> 00:22:49.970 can respond with next time to someone to say 594 00:22:49.970 --> 00:22:52.550 i can't take that meeting i've got to get 595 00:22:52.550 --> 00:22:54.910 my own stuff done send me the actions and 596 00:22:54.910 --> 00:22:57.850 i'll have a look at them later and then so she you 597 00:22:57.850 --> 00:22:59.970 know took a couple weeks but she fixed 598 00:22:59.970 --> 00:23:02.970 her work day so she 599 00:23:02.970 --> 00:23:04.790 was working at work and not taking so 600 00:23:04.790 --> 00:23:07.310 much harm and then it gave advice for 601 00:23:07.310 --> 00:23:08.510 like meal planning 602 00:23:08.510 --> 00:23:12.130 exercise patterns of an evening and you 603 00:23:12.130 --> 00:23:14.150 know she didn't let it dictate every part 604 00:23:14.150 --> 00:23:15.150 of her life but 605 00:23:15.150 --> 00:23:17.350 it gave different recommendations that 606 00:23:17.350 --> 00:23:20.050 she thought that's clever that's not 607 00:23:20.050 --> 00:23:21.570 something that my partner 608 00:23:21.570 --> 00:23:23.550 has recognized it's not something my 609 00:23:23.550 --> 00:23:25.830 friends have recognized it's something 610 00:23:25.830 --> 00:23:27.450 that only a system 611 00:23:27.450 --> 00:23:30.090 that's cataloguing and analyzing my life 612 00:23:30.090 --> 00:23:33.492 sort of knows about and it gave that 613 00:23:33.492 --> 00:23:35.700 insight i i use it 614 00:23:35.700 --> 00:23:38.060 for insight all the time again with three 615 00:23:38.120 --> 00:23:41.360 years of conversations it knows like it'll 616 00:23:41.360 --> 00:23:42.280 say you know 617 00:23:42.280 --> 00:23:44.540 craig i know you're excited about this 618 00:23:44.540 --> 00:23:46.700 next project that you've taken on and that you've 619 00:23:46.700 --> 00:23:49.100 said yes to but you've said yes to a lot 620 00:23:49.100 --> 00:23:52.660 lately and i'm getting the telltale signs that you're 621 00:23:52.660 --> 00:23:54.780 going to burn out you know and that you're 622 00:23:55.100 --> 00:23:57.020 going to not sleep well you're going to 623 00:23:57.020 --> 00:23:57.660 make yourself 624 00:23:57.660 --> 00:24:01.080 sick here's what you need to do to hone 625 00:24:01.080 --> 00:24:04.320 things down and it recognizes that just 626 00:24:04.320 --> 00:24:05.200 through my patterns 627 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.229 of speech and the the things that i tell 628 00:24:07.229 --> 00:24:09.850 it that i'm doing i think that's again 629 00:24:09.850 --> 00:24:10.610 people's comfort 630 00:24:10.610 --> 00:24:14.110 levels will differ but for me and for 631 00:24:14.110 --> 00:24:17.330 thinking about the implications for safe 632 00:24:17.330 --> 00:24:18.930 ways of harnessing 633 00:24:18.930 --> 00:24:21.430 that in a neurodivergent or inclusive 634 00:24:21.430 --> 00:24:24.010 education capacity i'm really interested 635 00:24:24.010 --> 00:24:24.930 in that i'm not 636 00:24:24.930 --> 00:24:27.610 interested in saying you know i'll give a 637 00:24:27.610 --> 00:24:30.310 san francisco based company every part of 638 00:24:30.310 --> 00:24:30.870 my this 639 00:24:30.870 --> 00:24:34.310 child's life but i'm thinking what are 640 00:24:34.310 --> 00:24:37.270 safe ways to extract the benefits from 641 00:24:37.270 --> 00:24:38.290 some of these systems 642 00:24:38.290 --> 00:24:41.005 and and to to safeguard the things that 643 00:24:41.005 --> 00:24:43.870 we need to stay safe about you know 644 00:24:43.870 --> 00:24:44.990 yeah 645 00:24:44.990 --> 00:24:46.030 so the the very 646 00:24:46.030 --> 00:24:48.530 last part of that i said we've got you've 647 00:24:48.790 --> 00:24:51.070 got alpha rhythm i for insight pay for 648 00:24:51.070 --> 00:24:51.970 play is that 649 00:24:51.970 --> 00:24:54.570 i just think man like there's so many fun 650 00:24:54.570 --> 00:24:58.650 creative things that ai can do and one of 651 00:24:58.650 --> 00:25:00.350 my worries and i 652 00:25:00.350 --> 00:25:02.690 still worry about it all the time that i 653 00:25:02.690 --> 00:25:06.210 see how much ai has just become an office 654 00:25:06.210 --> 00:25:07.490 tool you know 655 00:25:07.490 --> 00:25:09.490 it's i mean it seems like it's it's done 656 00:25:09.490 --> 00:25:12.030 either two things whenever it goes into 657 00:25:12.030 --> 00:25:13.310 the arts it's 658 00:25:13.310 --> 00:25:16.058 now perpetually considered ai slot it's 659 00:25:16.058 --> 00:25:19.620 it's taking away jobs from artists and 660 00:25:19.620 --> 00:25:20.900 musicians 661 00:25:20.900 --> 00:25:24.700 is the perspective so anytime it touches 662 00:25:24.700 --> 00:25:28.380 art it's it's ruining art and so like 663 00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:29.740 what else can ai do 664 00:25:29.740 --> 00:25:32.680 oh it'll help transcribe meetings and 665 00:25:32.680 --> 00:25:35.540 help write emails like well there's got 666 00:25:35.540 --> 00:25:36.940 to be something more 667 00:25:36.940 --> 00:25:40.000 that ai can can do and i i've been so 668 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:42.000 interested in seeing people who are 669 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.400 really creative use it in 670 00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:48.460 experimental ways i saw an opera in germany 671 00:25:48.460 --> 00:25:52.700 where the composer and the dance choreographer 672 00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:57.400 she used ai to make these versions of 673 00:25:57.400 --> 00:25:59.680 herself that could sing along in the 674 00:25:59.680 --> 00:26:02.580 choir operated 3d 675 00:26:02.580 --> 00:26:05.380 printers on stage to print props that the 676 00:26:05.380 --> 00:26:09.100 actors were using in real time it was modulating 677 00:26:09.100 --> 00:26:09.820 her face 678 00:26:09.820 --> 00:26:13.380 on this big screen co-writing songs i 679 00:26:13.380 --> 00:26:16.220 thought this is someone who's not afraid 680 00:26:16.220 --> 00:26:17.520 to play with 681 00:26:17.520 --> 00:26:20.480 the technology it's not writing the art 682 00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:22.933 it's not doing it for her she's in a 683 00:26:22.933 --> 00:26:23.880 really interesting 684 00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:26.500 dialogue and i thought what are some ways 685 00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:28.700 that we can do that and i mean one one 686 00:26:28.700 --> 00:26:29.600 version of play 687 00:26:29.740 --> 00:26:33.960 that I'll mention is my son who's seven 688 00:26:33.960 --> 00:26:36.640 now but when he was probably just turned 689 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:38.220 six we went to 690 00:26:38.220 --> 00:26:40.780 the beach and we're running in and out of 691 00:26:40.780 --> 00:26:44.160 the waves and he he said like I love this 692 00:26:44.160 --> 00:26:44.920 imagine if 693 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.720 there was a game about running in and out 694 00:26:47.720 --> 00:26:50.860 of the waves and I said well maybe we 695 00:26:50.860 --> 00:26:51.560 could do something 696 00:26:51.560 --> 00:26:54.285 like that so we got the phone we filmed 697 00:26:54.285 --> 00:26:57.950 the waves and how they moved and then we 698 00:26:57.950 --> 00:26:59.170 sat down afterwards 699 00:26:59.170 --> 00:27:02.330 with our towels around us in the sun on a 700 00:27:02.330 --> 00:27:06.670 bench and used AI to say, 701 00:27:06.670 --> 00:27:08.390 hey, we'd love to make a game 702 00:27:08.390 --> 00:27:10.070 where you run in and out of the waves. 703 00:27:10.250 --> 00:27:11.490 You can do this, do that. 704 00:27:11.490 --> 00:27:14.170 My son, in this like stream of consciousness, 705 00:27:14.170 --> 00:27:17.650 just kept adding ideas, ideas, ideas. 706 00:27:17.650 --> 00:27:18.670 By the end of the conversation, 707 00:27:19.070 --> 00:27:20.390 like half an hour later, 708 00:27:20.390 --> 00:27:24.510 we had a working prototype of a video game 709 00:27:24.510 --> 00:27:26.951 about a character running in and out of the waves 710 00:27:26.951 --> 00:27:30.120 and getting all these points and things i 711 00:27:30.120 --> 00:27:33.060 thought well what a what a playful thing 712 00:27:33.060 --> 00:27:34.560 for my son to 713 00:27:34.560 --> 00:27:38.140 not to think that oh i don't need to 714 00:27:38.140 --> 00:27:39.740 learn how to make a game or i don't need 715 00:27:39.740 --> 00:27:40.640 to learn how to paint 716 00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:42.860 it's like it's not at that point it wasn't 717 00:27:42.860 --> 00:27:46.280 about that it was having an idea that you 718 00:27:46.280 --> 00:27:49.940 could prototype and create so quickly and see 719 00:27:49.940 --> 00:27:52.400 the fruits of it that to for something to 720 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:55.700 become from an idea to become something that's 721 00:27:55.700 --> 00:27:58.500 real in such a rapid turnaround he 722 00:27:58.500 --> 00:27:59.260 thought it was amazing 723 00:27:59.260 --> 00:28:01.173 but then it led him to want to take it 724 00:28:01.173 --> 00:28:04.140 in other directions you know and to go home 725 00:28:04.140 --> 00:28:04.660 and do other 726 00:28:04.660 --> 00:28:06.880 sorts of play and to draw pictures about 727 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.100 this wave run experience and i thought 728 00:28:10.100 --> 00:28:11.440 again it's all in the 729 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.760 way you approach it if i said to a school 730 00:28:14.760 --> 00:28:17.380 network like to a whole department of 731 00:28:17.380 --> 00:28:19.000 education network of 732 00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.220 schools you should all go to the beach 733 00:28:22.220 --> 00:28:24.820 with your phones and film the waves and 734 00:28:24.820 --> 00:28:25.500 everyone should sit 735 00:28:25.500 --> 00:28:27.860 down and make a game i think no i don't 736 00:28:27.860 --> 00:28:30.220 want kids doing that that's something's 737 00:28:30.220 --> 00:28:30.880 going to get lost in 738 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.953 translation but when it when it's a 739 00:28:33.953 --> 00:28:37.750 spontaneous idiosyncratic experience that 740 00:28:38.150 --> 00:28:39.290 you can harness 741 00:28:39.290 --> 00:28:42.090 and take in really fascinating directions 742 00:28:42.090 --> 00:28:45.370 that sort of play really interests me and 743 00:28:45.370 --> 00:28:45.890 and that's 744 00:28:45.890 --> 00:28:47.790 where i'm constantly interested to see 745 00:28:47.790 --> 00:28:50.850 where this stuff can go so that's that's 746 00:28:50.850 --> 00:28:51.650 a long way josh 747 00:28:51.650 --> 00:28:54.750 of me saying that i think the walk and 748 00:28:54.750 --> 00:28:58.750 talk plus ai in real world multimodal 749 00:28:58.770 --> 00:28:59.970 ambient environments 750 00:28:59.970 --> 00:29:03.010 can be very playful and very creative and 751 00:29:03.010 --> 00:29:06.710 very useful in ways that to me are far 752 00:29:06.710 --> 00:29:09.870 more interesting than just sitting in front of a chatbot 753 00:29:09.870 --> 00:29:12.410 having you know sort of typing into it to 754 00:29:12.410 --> 00:29:13.730 to get jobs done 755 00:29:13.730 --> 00:29:15.570 Yeah, no, I think that is a really 756 00:29:15.570 --> 00:29:17.430 interesting way to look at it and putting 757 00:29:17.430 --> 00:29:19.790 it into those components of rhythm, 758 00:29:19.790 --> 00:29:21.120 insight and play. 759 00:29:21.120 --> 00:29:23.290 I think it kind of nice ways for people 760 00:29:23.290 --> 00:29:26.010 who may be a little more hesitant to use 761 00:29:26.010 --> 00:29:29.130 AI or to interact with AI in those ways 762 00:29:29.130 --> 00:29:31.210 to put them into those three components 763 00:29:31.210 --> 00:29:34.950 can kind of then maybe lend itself to an 764 00:29:34.950 --> 00:29:37.410 area to explore maybe at first and then 765 00:29:37.410 --> 00:29:39.730 see how that works. 766 00:29:46.560 --> 00:29:48.740 I do wonder though as well, you kind of 767 00:29:48.740 --> 00:29:50.340 touched on it a little bit, people out 768 00:29:50.340 --> 00:29:50.840 there who maybe 769 00:29:50.840 --> 00:29:52.900 are less comfortable with the big data 770 00:29:52.900 --> 00:29:56.740 side of things and how they use AI. What 771 00:29:56.740 --> 00:29:57.380 would you say 772 00:29:57.380 --> 00:29:59.620 maybe to those people who feel that the 773 00:29:59.620 --> 00:30:02.400 use of AI is potentially replacing 774 00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:03.540 personal connections 775 00:30:03.540 --> 00:30:06.440 and relationship building with whether 776 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:08.580 that be our friends, our neighbours, the 777 00:30:08.580 --> 00:30:09.220 broader community 778 00:30:09.220 --> 00:30:11.807 and how that's impacting those people who 779 00:30:11.807 --> 00:30:15.510 are starting to adopt AI a little more? 780 00:30:15.510 --> 00:30:18.490 Yeah, I'm really interested in this space, 781 00:30:18.490 --> 00:30:22.670 and I hope in my answer here to represent 782 00:30:22.670 --> 00:30:25.110 something that's maybe not a mainstream 783 00:30:25.110 --> 00:30:28.030 response, and I'll do it in a careful way 784 00:30:28.030 --> 00:30:28.770 that shows 785 00:30:28.770 --> 00:30:31.830 that I'm not going rogue too much from 786 00:30:31.830 --> 00:30:37.010 safety, but I've got two main thoughts. 787 00:30:37.010 --> 00:30:39.710 One is that I absolutely worry, I think 788 00:30:39.710 --> 00:30:41.990 like a lot of people do, about the role 789 00:30:41.990 --> 00:30:42.910 that technology 790 00:30:42.910 --> 00:30:45.985 in general has played in disrupting the 791 00:30:45.985 --> 00:30:49.800 social fabric and social relationships 792 00:30:49.800 --> 00:30:51.280 like we've probably 793 00:30:51.280 --> 00:30:54.260 been traditionally used to before the 794 00:30:54.260 --> 00:30:57.000 incoming of these new technologies 795 00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:58.840 particularly the the 796 00:30:58.840 --> 00:31:01.740 internet i think was was the the big one 797 00:31:01.740 --> 00:31:03.760 i mean i i was only thinking the other 798 00:31:03.760 --> 00:31:05.200 day as a teacher 799 00:31:05.200 --> 00:31:08.920 i used to use twitter um when sort of 800 00:31:08.920 --> 00:31:12.200 twitter educational conversations were 801 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:12.700 quite a big 802 00:31:12.700 --> 00:31:15.660 thing you know and particularly in australia 803 00:31:15.660 --> 00:31:18.080 would have nightly twitter conversations 804 00:31:18.080 --> 00:31:21.464 about the latest educational concept and and i 805 00:31:21.464 --> 00:31:23.930 always remember thinking people don't 806 00:31:23.930 --> 00:31:24.710 know how to be 807 00:31:24.710 --> 00:31:27.050 they can't have a polite conversation in 808 00:31:27.050 --> 00:31:32.270 this medium things turn angry and and uh 809 00:31:32.270 --> 00:31:33.270 knee-jerk 810 00:31:33.270 --> 00:31:36.430 aggressive very quickly and i thought it's 811 00:31:36.430 --> 00:31:38.830 not the people's fault like i all these 812 00:31:38.830 --> 00:31:39.390 people would 813 00:31:39.390 --> 00:31:42.170 be lovely i'm sure in a one-on-one 814 00:31:42.170 --> 00:31:44.430 conversation you know if you had dinner 815 00:31:44.430 --> 00:31:46.250 with them they wouldn't 816 00:31:46.250 --> 00:31:48.430 be they wouldn't be responding like they 817 00:31:48.430 --> 00:31:51.790 are now but the technology the technology 818 00:31:51.790 --> 00:31:52.570 is so new 819 00:31:52.570 --> 00:31:55.620 and being able to talk so anonymously or 820 00:31:55.620 --> 00:31:59.230 to you know think about your response and 821 00:31:59.230 --> 00:32:00.110 research and 822 00:32:00.110 --> 00:32:02.650 try and strategically beat the other 823 00:32:02.650 --> 00:32:05.290 person this is such a different way of 824 00:32:05.290 --> 00:32:06.430 interacting with people 825 00:32:06.430 --> 00:32:09.650 that it's no wonder that it's created 826 00:32:09.650 --> 00:32:12.800 a sort of antisocial environment at times. 827 00:32:12.800 --> 00:32:14.750 Sometimes it was great and sometimes it 828 00:32:14.750 --> 00:32:16.210 was very antisocial. 829 00:32:16.210 --> 00:32:18.210 And I thought this is an example of a new 830 00:32:18.210 --> 00:32:18.770 technology 831 00:32:18.770 --> 00:32:22.430 that we've not had 50 years, 100 years 832 00:32:22.430 --> 00:32:24.930 to learn how to be nice, you know, 833 00:32:25.217 --> 00:32:27.295 online in these massive global capacities. 834 00:32:27.295 --> 00:32:31.080 I think we still see that in different 835 00:32:31.080 --> 00:32:32.420 ways. 836 00:32:32.420 --> 00:32:35.600 So I do get worried about young people 837 00:32:35.600 --> 00:32:38.900 becoming isolated and becoming wrapped up 838 00:32:38.900 --> 00:32:41.620 in echo chambers where they don't get to 839 00:32:41.620 --> 00:32:43.360 have the sort of 840 00:32:43.540 --> 00:32:45.860 real world friendships and interactions 841 00:32:45.860 --> 00:32:49.280 where people challenge you and you've got 842 00:32:49.280 --> 00:32:50.100 to learn to 843 00:32:50.100 --> 00:32:52.720 be different versions of yourself and 844 00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:54.940 find out who you are in complex 845 00:32:54.940 --> 00:32:56.480 environments you know that 846 00:32:56.480 --> 00:32:58.775 are outside of the screen in saying that 847 00:32:58.775 --> 00:33:02.850 that also could be seen as quite an ableist 848 00:33:02.850 --> 00:33:03.870 perspective to 849 00:33:03.870 --> 00:33:06.610 take because you think well you know who's 850 00:33:06.610 --> 00:33:09.710 to say what the normative social approach 851 00:33:09.710 --> 00:33:11.050 is for friendship 852 00:33:11.050 --> 00:33:14.810 or for interaction and who's to say that 853 00:33:14.810 --> 00:33:18.570 the nostalgic view of sitting around the 854 00:33:18.570 --> 00:33:19.370 card table 855 00:33:19.370 --> 00:33:21.550 you know playing cards in front of the 856 00:33:21.550 --> 00:33:25.430 fireplace pre-tv or pre you know internet 857 00:33:25.430 --> 00:33:26.790 who's to say that 858 00:33:26.790 --> 00:33:30.230 that was the golden age of socialization 859 00:33:30.230 --> 00:33:33.628 maybe young young people on reddit and 860 00:33:33.628 --> 00:33:35.320 discord and 861 00:33:35.320 --> 00:33:38.020 online gaming and all these things it's 862 00:33:38.020 --> 00:33:40.820 just another version you know of of how 863 00:33:40.820 --> 00:33:41.460 that stuff 864 00:33:41.720 --> 00:33:45.360 plays out and in in autism education we 865 00:33:45.360 --> 00:33:48.600 talk about empathy but there's a concept called 866 00:33:48.600 --> 00:33:51.140 a double empathy and what double empathy 867 00:33:51.160 --> 00:33:53.400 is is the idea that you know you might 868 00:33:53.400 --> 00:33:54.400 have one person 869 00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:57.500 wanting to interact and socialize in a 870 00:33:57.500 --> 00:33:59.560 particular way someone else has a very 871 00:33:59.560 --> 00:34:00.500 different perspective 872 00:34:00.500 --> 00:34:03.820 on socializing and interacting and they'll 873 00:34:03.840 --> 00:34:06.540 both come at things in their own way and 874 00:34:06.540 --> 00:34:07.110 if if they 875 00:34:07.110 --> 00:34:09.700 both think that they're right then they'll 876 00:34:09.700 --> 00:34:11.600 both see the other person as being wrong 877 00:34:11.600 --> 00:34:12.740 you know and 878 00:34:12.740 --> 00:34:16.360 sometimes as school teachers we can tell 879 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:18.780 ourselves you know i've got a normative 880 00:34:18.780 --> 00:34:20.500 perfect understanding 881 00:34:20.500 --> 00:34:22.580 of what it is to be social and I've got 882 00:34:22.580 --> 00:34:25.080 this autistic student or this other 883 00:34:25.080 --> 00:34:26.960 student and I can 884 00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:29.580 see their social deficits so I'm going to 885 00:34:29.580 --> 00:34:31.620 teach them the right way to socialize you 886 00:34:31.620 --> 00:34:32.280 know I'll 887 00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:34.120 teach them how to make friends and I'll 888 00:34:34.120 --> 00:34:35.540 teach them how to walk up and shake 889 00:34:35.540 --> 00:34:36.260 someone's hand 890 00:34:36.260 --> 00:34:38.340 but what a double empathy perspective 891 00:34:38.340 --> 00:34:41.623 would say is I've got one version of what 892 00:34:41.623 --> 00:34:42.920 it is to be social 893 00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:46.060 that person that child that autistic 894 00:34:46.060 --> 00:34:47.880 student has their version of what it is 895 00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:48.500 to be social 896 00:34:48.500 --> 00:34:51.640 And we need to both try and empathize and 897 00:34:51.640 --> 00:34:53.780 understand each other's standpoints 898 00:34:53.780 --> 00:34:56.120 without one person thinking that they're 899 00:34:56.120 --> 00:34:59.780 right. And so from that perspective, I 900 00:34:59.780 --> 00:35:02.640 think about the use of AI in social 901 00:35:02.640 --> 00:35:06.580 interaction and friendships online. And I 902 00:35:06.580 --> 00:35:08.060 think what would the double empathy 903 00:35:08.060 --> 00:35:09.840 perspective be? 904 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:13.520 I think it would be to be patient enough 905 00:35:13.520 --> 00:35:15.720 to think, let's just give this some space 906 00:35:15.720 --> 00:35:19.920 and see what sort of interactions happen 907 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:21.620 and the way that some of these young 908 00:35:21.620 --> 00:35:25.180 people might benefit from this or not, 909 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:27.480 but we need to keep a bit of a watch on it. 910 00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.000 And one thing that really sticks in my 911 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.400 mind about this is there was an online 912 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:35.300 forum, it's still running, but caught 913 00:35:35.300 --> 00:35:37.700 sort of news attention around six to 914 00:35:37.700 --> 00:35:38.820 eight months ago. 915 00:35:38.820 --> 00:35:41.920 and the forum was it was on reddit and it 916 00:35:41.920 --> 00:35:45.460 was called my boyfriend is ai and it was 917 00:35:45.900 --> 00:35:46.800 a forum of 918 00:35:46.800 --> 00:35:50.443 different people mostly women who who 919 00:35:50.443 --> 00:35:53.890 were creating ai boyfriends with 920 00:35:53.890 --> 00:35:54.710 different tools 921 00:35:54.710 --> 00:35:57.790 and sharing their experiences on online 922 00:35:57.790 --> 00:36:00.970 and when you read the sort of 923 00:36:01.070 --> 00:36:02.410 conversations that they were 924 00:36:02.410 --> 00:36:04.990 sharing these were and i mean they were 925 00:36:04.990 --> 00:36:07.670 so individual that there'd be no version 926 00:36:07.670 --> 00:36:10.130 of me trying to represent things that would 927 00:36:10.130 --> 00:36:13.990 capture everything nicely but one version 928 00:36:13.990 --> 00:36:14.850 certainly was 929 00:36:14.850 --> 00:36:17.270 that some of these people on the forum 930 00:36:17.270 --> 00:36:20.690 had had really negative relationships in 931 00:36:20.690 --> 00:36:21.190 in the past 932 00:36:22.010 --> 00:36:24.590 that had relationships broke down maybe 933 00:36:24.590 --> 00:36:27.370 relationships full of trauma and 934 00:36:27.370 --> 00:36:28.150 different 935 00:36:28.150 --> 00:36:30.550 challenges that they thought, I'm not 936 00:36:30.550 --> 00:36:32.990 ready to go into another relationship 937 00:36:32.990 --> 00:36:33.970 with another human 938 00:36:33.970 --> 00:36:36.690 after what I've just experienced. But I 939 00:36:36.690 --> 00:36:39.730 want some sort of companionship and maybe 940 00:36:39.730 --> 00:36:41.250 a sense of safety 941 00:36:41.250 --> 00:36:44.390 that I can have a conversation with this 942 00:36:44.390 --> 00:36:47.910 boyfriend and they'll be gentle and kind 943 00:36:47.910 --> 00:36:48.990 and talk about 944 00:36:48.990 --> 00:36:51.110 things I'm interested in. And there were 945 00:36:51.110 --> 00:36:53.790 a lot of autistic people on this forum, a 946 00:36:53.790 --> 00:36:56.545 lot of neurodivergent folk on the forum who said, 947 00:36:56.545 --> 00:37:01.200 this feels much safer and supportive in a 948 00:37:01.200 --> 00:37:01.840 way that my 949 00:37:01.840 --> 00:37:03.520 relationships with the past just have 950 00:37:03.520 --> 00:37:06.100 never, never been. And I thought, well, 951 00:37:06.100 --> 00:37:06.660 this is really 952 00:37:06.660 --> 00:37:09.200 interesting. Like this is a space, a safe 953 00:37:09.200 --> 00:37:11.080 space where people were able to explore 954 00:37:11.080 --> 00:37:12.380 this. Now it 955 00:37:12.380 --> 00:37:15.180 caught wind outside of the forum and 956 00:37:15.180 --> 00:37:17.860 suddenly news headlines on different 957 00:37:17.860 --> 00:37:19.460 newspapers around the world 958 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:22.900 were saying look at these people having 959 00:37:22.900 --> 00:37:26.740 ai boyfriends how strange how weird how 960 00:37:26.740 --> 00:37:27.660 dystopian 961 00:37:27.660 --> 00:37:29.608 like what has the world led to that this 962 00:37:29.608 --> 00:37:32.310 is what's happening to people instead of 963 00:37:32.310 --> 00:37:33.370 a real life partner 964 00:37:33.370 --> 00:37:36.690 they're talking to their computer and the 965 00:37:36.690 --> 00:37:39.630 feedback around that was were people 966 00:37:39.630 --> 00:37:41.390 absolutely like piling 967 00:37:41.390 --> 00:37:44.110 on you know and saying this is terrible 968 00:37:44.110 --> 00:37:46.390 this is the end of society if we can have 969 00:37:46.910 --> 00:37:47.970 ai boyfriends 970 00:37:47.970 --> 00:37:50.170 and girlfriends and friends our children 971 00:37:50.170 --> 00:37:52.490 are never going to grow up to know what 972 00:37:52.490 --> 00:37:53.070 it is to have a 973 00:37:53.070 --> 00:37:56.250 regular friendship or partner and i 974 00:37:56.250 --> 00:37:58.830 thought this is where we need to be 975 00:37:58.830 --> 00:38:00.550 really careful about 976 00:38:00.650 --> 00:38:04.403 absolutely recognizing safety and mental 977 00:38:04.403 --> 00:38:08.180 health and well-being and making sure 978 00:38:08.180 --> 00:38:08.900 that people don't 979 00:38:08.900 --> 00:38:11.360 feel isolated and don't have you know 980 00:38:11.360 --> 00:38:12.900 they need to have people who they can 981 00:38:12.900 --> 00:38:14.080 touch base within real 982 00:38:14.080 --> 00:38:17.280 life but at the same time let's take a 983 00:38:17.280 --> 00:38:19.260 double empathy lens and let's consider 984 00:38:19.260 --> 00:38:20.440 that not everyone 985 00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:23.160 socializes in the same way and are there 986 00:38:23.160 --> 00:38:26.440 people who can have relationships with ai 987 00:38:26.440 --> 00:38:27.900 that actually 988 00:38:27.900 --> 00:38:30.700 get a lot of well-being from it and a lot 989 00:38:30.700 --> 00:38:32.880 of benefit it might not be the 990 00:38:32.880 --> 00:38:33.840 relationship that 991 00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:37.280 they're in for 30 years it might be a 992 00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:38.505 relationship that they're in for six 993 00:38:38.505 --> 00:38:40.840 months and it's enough to 994 00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:43.620 give them a sense of self-confidence and 995 00:38:43.620 --> 00:38:46.960 grace that that might lead them to other 996 00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:48.100 pathways in 997 00:38:48.100 --> 00:38:51.200 the future but i'm i'm cautious about 998 00:38:51.200 --> 00:38:53.960 having a take on it that's that's too 999 00:38:53.960 --> 00:38:55.060 black or white because 1000 00:38:55.060 --> 00:38:57.820 i think we just have to see how things 1001 00:38:57.820 --> 00:38:59.020 grow and evolve 1002 00:38:59.020 --> 00:39:00.640 yeah i think that double 1003 00:39:00.640 --> 00:39:02.080 empathy lens is 1004 00:39:02.080 --> 00:39:03.900 a really interesting and probably 1005 00:39:03.900 --> 00:39:06.580 valuable tool to use in terms of the way 1006 00:39:06.580 --> 00:39:08.120 that we approach a lot 1007 00:39:08.120 --> 00:39:10.280 things obviously but in terms of ai 1008 00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:12.443 specifically i think that is a great way 1009 00:39:12.443 --> 00:39:14.230 to try and frame it and 1010 00:39:14.490 --> 00:39:17.370 understand where other people might be 1011 00:39:17.370 --> 00:39:19.070 coming from in the way that they use it i 1012 00:39:19.130 --> 00:39:19.850 guess in your 1013 00:39:19.850 --> 00:39:23.350 experience with your understanding of ai 1014 00:39:23.350 --> 00:39:25.450 and your use of it to this point how do 1015 00:39:25.450 --> 00:39:26.850 you feel we best 1016 00:39:26.850 --> 00:39:29.610 support children and young adults to 1017 00:39:29.610 --> 00:39:32.850 learn about and use ai in a way that they 1018 00:39:32.850 --> 00:39:33.950 understand it and 1019 00:39:34.090 --> 00:39:36.450 can ensure that they're being safe in the 1020 00:39:36.450 --> 00:39:37.890 way that they're using it or the people 1021 00:39:37.890 --> 00:39:38.770 around them 1022 00:39:38.770 --> 00:39:39.510 are using it 1023 00:39:39.590 --> 00:39:41.010 yeah i i think 1024 00:39:42.090 --> 00:39:42.930 i think it's 1025 00:39:42.930 --> 00:39:46.223 it's incredibly important to to teach the use of ai 1026 00:39:46.223 --> 00:39:49.860 like you would teach a really good 1027 00:39:49.860 --> 00:39:52.780 program on technology for any other piece 1028 00:39:52.780 --> 00:39:53.880 of tech and i 1029 00:39:53.880 --> 00:39:56.900 think people in this space would say we 1030 00:39:56.900 --> 00:40:00.200 rarely do that well we we often like sit 1031 00:40:00.500 --> 00:40:01.620 children in front 1032 00:40:01.620 --> 00:40:04.680 over the computer and say you know open 1033 00:40:04.680 --> 00:40:07.680 this game or open this program without 1034 00:40:07.680 --> 00:40:08.340 ever saying 1035 00:40:08.340 --> 00:40:10.480 well how does the computer work you know 1036 00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:12.860 how does all this happen or what's the 1037 00:40:12.860 --> 00:40:13.560 internet how does 1038 00:40:13.560 --> 00:40:17.260 that work i i really like the work of an 1039 00:40:17.260 --> 00:40:20.790 educator and um author named linda lucas 1040 00:40:20.790 --> 00:40:23.000 and linda lucas 1041 00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:25.740 created a series of books that started 1042 00:40:25.740 --> 00:40:29.480 with one called hello ruby and the idea 1043 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:30.360 of hello ruby was 1044 00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:33.600 teaching children all about coding and 1045 00:40:33.600 --> 00:40:36.680 how like block-based coding and little 1046 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:37.580 cause and effect 1047 00:40:37.580 --> 00:40:38.740 relationships work 1048 00:40:39.440 --> 00:40:40.600 but it did it without 1049 00:40:40.600 --> 00:40:43.820 ever mentioning or not mentioning up 1050 00:40:43.820 --> 00:40:44.420 front about 1051 00:40:44.420 --> 00:40:47.620 computers it did it in this very playful 1052 00:40:47.620 --> 00:40:51.180 offline capacity of let's just look at 1053 00:40:51.180 --> 00:40:52.160 the world around us 1054 00:40:52.160 --> 00:40:54.643 and how things relate and how different 1055 00:40:54.643 --> 00:40:57.490 cause and effect happens and it taught 1056 00:40:57.490 --> 00:40:59.190 coding in that way 1057 00:40:59.550 --> 00:41:01.630 It was very imaginative and very playful, 1058 00:41:01.630 --> 00:41:04.030 and I've seen what Linda has done in 1059 00:41:04.030 --> 00:41:07.010 terms of a similar approach to AI in 1060 00:41:07.010 --> 00:41:10.770 really explaining to children in very 1061 00:41:10.770 --> 00:41:13.550 accessible ways, like, what is a large 1062 00:41:13.550 --> 00:41:15.150 language model, you know? 1063 00:41:15.150 --> 00:41:17.490 What is machine learning? 1064 00:41:17.650 --> 00:41:20.010 What actually is happening in these 1065 00:41:20.010 --> 00:41:22.370 systems, and how do they recognize the 1066 00:41:22.370 --> 00:41:24.590 difference between a blackberry muffin 1067 00:41:24.590 --> 00:41:26.930 and a small dog, you know? 1068 00:41:26.930 --> 00:41:29.110 like what are they doing when they're 1069 00:41:29.110 --> 00:41:31.800 looking at these things and doing all 1070 00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:33.480 these really complex 1071 00:41:33.480 --> 00:41:37.100 sort of computational tricks and i think 1072 00:41:37.100 --> 00:41:40.400 that's super important like to not have 1073 00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:41.840 this phone or 1074 00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:44.660 this ipad or this laptop and say there's 1075 00:41:44.660 --> 00:41:47.260 this magical thing here that if you ask 1076 00:41:47.260 --> 00:41:48.340 it to make 1077 00:41:48.340 --> 00:41:50.820 an artwork it'll make an artwork and if 1078 00:41:50.820 --> 00:41:53.160 you ask it to write an essay for you it'll 1079 00:41:53.160 --> 00:41:53.920 write an essay 1080 00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:56.740 I think that's setting up children to 1081 00:41:56.740 --> 00:42:00.000 completely outsource their cognition and 1082 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:02.790 their imagination to a black box that 1083 00:42:02.790 --> 00:42:05.900 they've no idea how it works. 1084 00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:09.840 I think if you preload those children to 1085 00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:11.600 say, well, here's how the technology 1086 00:42:11.600 --> 00:42:12.440 operates. 1087 00:42:12.660 --> 00:42:15.460 You're a human with an incredibly complex 1088 00:42:15.460 --> 00:42:17.880 and interesting brain as well. 1089 00:42:17.880 --> 00:42:20.420 what if you use those in harmony with 1090 00:42:20.420 --> 00:42:23.080 each other or what are some ways that you 1091 00:42:23.520 --> 00:42:24.560 can do things in 1092 00:42:24.560 --> 00:42:26.860 partnership that can lead to some 1093 00:42:26.860 --> 00:42:29.500 interesting outcomes and and that's the 1094 00:42:29.500 --> 00:42:30.380 stuff that i'm 1095 00:42:30.380 --> 00:42:33.380 really interested in i um sometimes think 1096 00:42:33.380 --> 00:42:36.985 about this analogy i guess of a mountain like if we 1097 00:42:36.985 --> 00:42:39.390 think about a mountain and we think about 1098 00:42:39.390 --> 00:42:43.450 us as adults compared to our children and 1099 00:42:43.450 --> 00:42:46.990 the way that We use technology and they use tech. 1100 00:42:46.990 --> 00:42:49.050 You and I, like we'd use, I mean, I use 1101 00:42:49.050 --> 00:42:50.710 AI all the time in a professional 1102 00:42:50.710 --> 00:42:51.870 capacity, but 1103 00:42:51.870 --> 00:42:54.530 I feel like I've climbed the mountain 1104 00:42:54.530 --> 00:42:58.830 across years of learning and sweat and 1105 00:42:58.830 --> 00:42:59.850 tears and 1106 00:42:59.850 --> 00:43:00.810 hard work. 1107 00:43:01.430 --> 00:43:04.750 And I've made my way up to, maybe not the 1108 00:43:04.750 --> 00:43:06.770 peak, but I've made my way up the mountain 1109 00:43:06.770 --> 00:43:10.230 so I can walk with very long legs from 1110 00:43:10.230 --> 00:43:12.200 one mountain to another, to another. 1111 00:43:12.200 --> 00:43:16.110 And AI can help me take shortcuts and do 1112 00:43:16.110 --> 00:43:18.610 all these things that help me without 1113 00:43:18.610 --> 00:43:19.570 taking away 1114 00:43:19.570 --> 00:43:22.470 the sweat that I needed to actually learn 1115 00:43:22.470 --> 00:43:24.780 how to climb those mountains. 1116 00:43:24.780 --> 00:43:27.690 I think for our children, I don't want 1117 00:43:27.690 --> 00:43:31.130 them to see AI as a chairlift that's going to sort 1118 00:43:31.130 --> 00:43:32.630 of carry them up to the top of the 1119 00:43:32.630 --> 00:43:34.050 mountain without any effort. 1120 00:43:34.330 --> 00:43:37.650 It's like you need to climb and sweat and 1121 00:43:37.650 --> 00:43:41.690 do the hard work with your cognition and problem 1122 00:43:41.690 --> 00:43:44.150 solve and then you'll be able to use 1123 00:43:44.150 --> 00:43:47.443 these technologies in ways that I can't 1124 00:43:47.443 --> 00:43:48.080 even imagine 1125 00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:50.020 what the future is going to bring but you 1126 00:43:50.340 --> 00:43:52.400 you absolutely need to do the hard yards 1127 00:43:52.400 --> 00:43:53.440 before you 1128 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:56.000 get there and I understand it's not as 1129 00:43:56.000 --> 00:43:58.040 easy as saying well I mean some schools 1130 00:43:58.040 --> 00:43:58.600 are saying well 1131 00:43:58.600 --> 00:44:01.040 you know no AI until you're in year 10 1132 00:44:01.040 --> 00:44:04.020 you know or no AI until you're you're in 1133 00:44:04.020 --> 00:44:04.860 high school and 1134 00:44:04.860 --> 00:44:07.100 you're quite older I mean I never think 1135 00:44:07.100 --> 00:44:09.300 that's a realistic approach because 1136 00:44:09.300 --> 00:44:11.500 children will access 1137 00:44:11.500 --> 00:44:14.680 the technology somehow in some capacity 1138 00:44:14.680 --> 00:44:18.220 and if you're not there to help them 1139 00:44:18.220 --> 00:44:19.200 understand it then 1140 00:44:19.200 --> 00:44:20.927 they will make you know they could go 1141 00:44:20.927 --> 00:44:22.880 down pathways that won't be beneficial 1142 00:44:22.880 --> 00:44:23.620 for them in 1143 00:44:23.620 --> 00:44:25.660 in the long run so i mean like i said 1144 00:44:25.660 --> 00:44:29.260 my son is um seven we've spent the last two 1145 00:44:29.260 --> 00:44:30.340 years talking 1146 00:44:30.340 --> 00:44:33.440 about ai playing around with it learning 1147 00:44:33.440 --> 00:44:36.200 what it can do and we've used it to say 1148 00:44:36.200 --> 00:44:37.060 let's make an 1149 00:44:37.060 --> 00:44:39.760 artwork around this or let's make a movie 1150 00:44:39.760 --> 00:44:44.200 about this but i've never said now let's 1151 00:44:44.280 --> 00:44:44.800 just put your 1152 00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:46.440 colored pencils away because you don't 1153 00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:49.100 need those anymore you know like we we we 1154 00:44:49.100 --> 00:44:50.660 do the art we write 1155 00:44:50.660 --> 00:44:53.513 the songs we write the stories and and i'm 1156 00:44:53.513 --> 00:44:56.220 i try and you know as an adult and his 1157 00:44:56.220 --> 00:44:58.080 dad model what a 1158 00:44:58.080 --> 00:45:01.100 really enjoyable life of the mind can 1159 00:45:01.100 --> 00:45:02.720 look like you know if you 1160 00:45:02.720 --> 00:45:03.360 yeah 1161 00:45:03.480 --> 00:45:04.300 create and 1162 00:45:04.300 --> 00:45:05.320 do things and say 1163 00:45:05.320 --> 00:45:09.000 i'm not writing books with ai i use ai 1164 00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:11.060 every day to walk and talk about those 1165 00:45:11.060 --> 00:45:13.160 books and i use it to 1166 00:45:13.160 --> 00:45:15.960 research and i use it to help me to um 1167 00:45:15.960 --> 00:45:17.920 draft different things at times and 1168 00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:18.600 practice different 1169 00:45:18.600 --> 00:45:21.420 ideas but it's always at the end of the 1170 00:45:21.420 --> 00:45:24.620 day my own cognitive sweat that's being 1171 00:45:24.620 --> 00:45:25.645 you know burned here 1172 00:45:25.645 --> 00:45:28.080 to actually make the thing come to life 1173 00:45:28.080 --> 00:45:30.960 and i want you to do that as a child 1174 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:31.580 so 1175 00:45:31.580 --> 00:45:33.740 again it's easier said 1176 00:45:33.740 --> 00:45:36.580 than done and when i've sat in meetings 1177 00:45:36.580 --> 00:45:40.080 with education departments and academics 1178 00:45:40.080 --> 00:45:41.380 and people 1179 00:45:41.380 --> 00:45:43.640 who are talking about well how do we 1180 00:45:43.640 --> 00:45:46.660 scale this safely how do we have ai 1181 00:45:46.660 --> 00:45:48.320 across an entire school 1182 00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:50.760 system or across this you know even just 1183 00:45:50.760 --> 00:45:54.820 a school and i always say i what what i 1184 00:45:54.820 --> 00:45:55.540 would rather you 1185 00:45:55.540 --> 00:45:58.097 lean into rather than one way of using 1186 00:45:58.097 --> 00:46:01.660 technology that is safe for everybody to 1187 00:46:01.660 --> 00:46:02.740 use in the same way 1188 00:46:02.740 --> 00:46:05.500 is try to create opportunities for 1189 00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:08.760 children to experiment be a bit rogue go 1190 00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:09.480 a little bit wild 1191 00:46:09.480 --> 00:46:11.820 use different tools don't just lock them 1192 00:46:11.820 --> 00:46:14.960 down to microsoft copilot and that's the only thing 1193 00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:16.860 you're allowed to touch like give them a 1194 00:46:16.860 --> 00:46:20.840 playground do it safely but let them play and let them 1195 00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:23.420 experiment and you as a teacher need to 1196 00:46:23.420 --> 00:46:25.620 be well versed enough in knowing how this 1197 00:46:25.620 --> 00:46:26.360 stuff works 1198 00:46:26.640 --> 00:46:28.340 to be their guide on the side and to 1199 00:46:28.340 --> 00:46:31.360 model and practice and play I'd rather 1200 00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:32.428 see that sort of 1201 00:46:32.428 --> 00:46:35.250 environment rather than someone standing 1202 00:46:35.250 --> 00:46:37.830 at the front saying everyone open your AI 1203 00:46:37.830 --> 00:46:38.570 tool everyone 1204 00:46:38.570 --> 00:46:42.570 do this in a very measured and rote way 1205 00:46:42.570 --> 00:46:45.950 um and I get I get why that feels safe 1206 00:46:45.950 --> 00:46:47.110 but I also think 1207 00:46:47.110 --> 00:46:50.130 safety shouldn't be the first priority I 1208 00:46:50.130 --> 00:46:51.930 think the first priority should be 1209 00:46:51.930 --> 00:46:53.450 creative experimentation 1210 00:46:53.450 --> 00:46:56.630 and to see what new opportunities can 1211 00:46:56.630 --> 00:46:57.830 unfold out of that 1212 00:46:57.950 --> 00:46:59.130 yeah and i think that 1213 00:46:59.130 --> 00:47:00.390 idea of being able 1214 00:47:00.390 --> 00:47:02.030 to take risks is something that children 1215 00:47:02.630 --> 00:47:05.810 especially have always wanted and needed 1216 00:47:05.810 --> 00:47:06.363 to take in certain 1217 00:47:06.363 --> 00:47:08.760 environments and situations right that's 1218 00:47:08.760 --> 00:47:11.440 all part of the learning and so being 1219 00:47:11.440 --> 00:47:12.240 able to apply that 1220 00:47:12.240 --> 00:47:15.600 same premise to learning and using ai i 1221 00:47:15.600 --> 00:47:17.320 guess is is really important as well and 1222 00:47:17.320 --> 00:47:18.060 that idea that you 1223 00:47:18.060 --> 00:47:19.620 mentioned of being the guide on the side 1224 00:47:19.620 --> 00:47:21.920 i think is is really important because 1225 00:47:21.920 --> 00:47:23.040 there's many things 1226 00:47:23.040 --> 00:47:24.760 before AI that have done a similar thing, 1227 00:47:24.760 --> 00:47:27.700 I guess, right? Like YouTube before that 1228 00:47:27.860 --> 00:47:28.420 movies and 1229 00:47:28.420 --> 00:47:30.760 television, whatever it might've been, if 1230 00:47:31.060 --> 00:47:34.760 we just let children have at it and do 1231 00:47:34.760 --> 00:47:35.360 whatever they want 1232 00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:37.900 with it, they could find themselves, uh, 1233 00:47:37.900 --> 00:47:39.860 in all kinds of places on YouTube or 1234 00:47:39.860 --> 00:47:40.517 watching all kinds 1235 00:47:40.517 --> 00:47:43.100 of different movies and things exposed to 1236 00:47:43.100 --> 00:47:44.780 content that maybe wasn't appropriate for 1237 00:47:44.780 --> 00:47:45.400 them to see at 1238 00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:47.800 that point in time. Um, but if there's 1239 00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:49.720 somebody there, who's that guide on the 1240 00:47:49.720 --> 00:47:51.320 side who can unpack 1241 00:47:51.680 --> 00:47:53.520 those things and can just sort of guide 1242 00:47:53.700 --> 00:47:56.600 maybe where they're exploring and what 1243 00:47:56.600 --> 00:47:57.420 risks they're 1244 00:47:57.420 --> 00:47:58.940 taking i think that's a really important 1245 00:47:58.940 --> 00:48:02.280 way to explore technology like this as well 1246 00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:11.950 something that i'm really interested in finding out 1247 00:48:12.060 --> 00:48:15.420 more about as well is your then support 1248 00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:16.980 of ai tools 1249 00:48:16.980 --> 00:48:19.160 through something that you've developed 1250 00:48:19.160 --> 00:48:22.940 which is a website and an ai tool for 1251 00:48:22.940 --> 00:48:24.220 both teachers and 1252 00:48:24.220 --> 00:48:27.200 students, which is, for those that haven't 1253 00:48:27.200 --> 00:48:29.400 heard of it before, Universal Sandpit. 1254 00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:30.220 Are you able to 1255 00:48:30.220 --> 00:48:32.940 expand on that and tell us about where 1256 00:48:32.940 --> 00:48:35.420 Universal Sandpit came from and then what 1257 00:48:35.420 --> 00:48:36.080 it is that you 1258 00:48:36.080 --> 00:48:38.700 can explore, use and understand from 1259 00:48:38.700 --> 00:48:40.080 Universal Sandpit? 1260 00:48:40.080 --> 00:48:42.080 Yeah, absolutely, Josh. 1261 00:48:42.080 --> 00:48:43.260 So I think the 1262 00:48:43.260 --> 00:48:45.727 Universal Sandpit came out of me thinking 1263 00:48:45.727 --> 00:48:48.850 there are certain things I'm doing all 1264 00:48:48.850 --> 00:48:49.970 the time with AI 1265 00:48:49.970 --> 00:48:52.470 that could be really useful in an 1266 00:48:52.470 --> 00:48:55.550 inclusive education setting but what's a 1267 00:48:55.550 --> 00:48:56.190 way to maybe 1268 00:48:56.190 --> 00:48:58.670 just pull out a few of those things and 1269 00:48:58.830 --> 00:49:01.290 put them in a really simple and safe 1270 00:49:01.290 --> 00:49:01.850 environment 1271 00:49:01.850 --> 00:49:04.790 so people aren't feeling like they've got 1272 00:49:04.790 --> 00:49:09.230 to download say chat jpt and ask it to do 1273 00:49:09.230 --> 00:49:11.350 all these things itself like what if it was 1274 00:49:11.350 --> 00:49:14.270 just as easy as typing in what you want 1275 00:49:14.270 --> 00:49:15.110 and pushing a 1276 00:49:15.110 --> 00:49:17.170 button in a really little safe 1277 00:49:17.170 --> 00:49:19.839 environment so some of the in some some 1278 00:49:19.839 --> 00:49:21.500 of the initial things 1279 00:49:21.500 --> 00:49:24.940 in an inclusive capacity that were coming 1280 00:49:24.940 --> 00:49:27.500 up for me in my work and for the 1281 00:49:27.500 --> 00:49:28.280 colleagues that i was 1282 00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:30.840 working with were things like using the 1283 00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:33.260 strengths and interests of students 1284 00:49:33.260 --> 00:49:35.000 authentically in in the 1285 00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.740 classroom which to me has always been a 1286 00:49:37.740 --> 00:49:41.060 real source of joy but also a real way of 1287 00:49:41.180 --> 00:49:41.820 helping 1288 00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:44.040 students achieve their goals if you could 1289 00:49:44.040 --> 00:49:46.260 take something that they love with their 1290 00:49:46.260 --> 00:49:47.420 consent and 1291 00:49:47.420 --> 00:49:50.320 make it part of the the learning journey 1292 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:52.040 is like it you can get some really 1293 00:49:52.040 --> 00:49:53.060 interesting results 1294 00:49:53.890 --> 00:49:56.750 the challenge is that sometimes students 1295 00:49:56.750 --> 00:49:58.870 love things that teachers and support 1296 00:49:58.870 --> 00:49:59.570 staff have no 1297 00:49:59.570 --> 00:50:02.270 idea about you know they'll have this 1298 00:50:02.270 --> 00:50:05.650 niche internet fascination with a 1299 00:50:05.650 --> 00:50:07.250 particular game or 1300 00:50:07.250 --> 00:50:09.810 something and the teacher who's already 1301 00:50:09.810 --> 00:50:12.650 time poor or the support staff who only 1302 00:50:12.650 --> 00:50:13.370 have a couple of 1303 00:50:13.370 --> 00:50:15.670 minutes are thinking I'd care how I wrap 1304 00:50:15.670 --> 00:50:18.290 my head around this thing and authentically 1305 00:50:18.290 --> 00:50:19.050 connect it to 1306 00:50:19.050 --> 00:50:21.190 the work being done in class and I 1307 00:50:21.190 --> 00:50:22.850 thought again these are teachers and 1308 00:50:22.850 --> 00:50:24.550 support staff who aren't 1309 00:50:24.550 --> 00:50:26.970 going to necessarily whip their phone out 1310 00:50:27.250 --> 00:50:30.310 and get chat GPT and think what do I ask 1311 00:50:30.310 --> 00:50:30.830 like how do I 1312 00:50:30.830 --> 00:50:33.770 make this happen so I thought I'll make a 1313 00:50:33.770 --> 00:50:36.330 tiny little web application all about 1314 00:50:36.330 --> 00:50:36.890 strengths and 1315 00:50:36.890 --> 00:50:40.350 interests, and it'll say, type in the 1316 00:50:40.350 --> 00:50:43.170 interests that your student has, type in 1317 00:50:43.170 --> 00:50:44.590 the topic that's 1318 00:50:44.590 --> 00:50:47.190 being taught in class, push the button, 1319 00:50:47.190 --> 00:50:49.850 and I'll give you 10 ways, or the AI will 1320 00:50:49.850 --> 00:50:50.750 give you 10 ways 1321 00:50:50.750 --> 00:50:52.970 to connect that interest to what's being 1322 00:50:52.970 --> 00:50:56.070 taught in class. And it started very 1323 00:50:56.070 --> 00:50:57.970 simple. I made about 1324 00:50:57.970 --> 00:51:00.215 three or four of those tools and just had 1325 00:51:00.215 --> 00:51:03.430 them up on the website. And I got a lot 1326 00:51:03.430 --> 00:51:04.290 of feedback from 1327 00:51:04.290 --> 00:51:06.410 from teachers and support staff and 1328 00:51:06.410 --> 00:51:09.110 families around the world who said like i 1329 00:51:09.110 --> 00:51:09.830 could actually 1330 00:51:09.830 --> 00:51:13.390 see how i could use ai in a way that i 1331 00:51:13.710 --> 00:51:16.830 felt too scared to use chat jpt you know 1332 00:51:16.830 --> 00:51:17.370 or some of these 1333 00:51:17.370 --> 00:51:20.650 other tools um and so that and then they'd 1334 00:51:20.650 --> 00:51:22.570 say have you ever thought about making a 1335 00:51:22.570 --> 00:51:23.250 tool where 1336 00:51:23.250 --> 00:51:25.890 you know it could help to write social 1337 00:51:25.890 --> 00:51:28.070 stories for children or have you ever 1338 00:51:28.070 --> 00:51:28.710 thought of a tool 1339 00:51:28.710 --> 00:51:29.723 that could do this and 1340 00:51:30.430 --> 00:51:32.650 so over a period 1341 00:51:32.650 --> 00:51:34.817 of two or three years it grew from four 1342 00:51:34.817 --> 00:51:37.040 tools to maybe like 1343 00:51:37.040 --> 00:51:41.120 20 you know different um tools and the 1344 00:51:41.120 --> 00:51:44.660 idea behind each of them was this should 1345 00:51:44.660 --> 00:51:46.500 never take away the 1346 00:51:46.500 --> 00:51:49.960 creative capacity of the teacher or the 1347 00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:52.480 the parent this should never take away 1348 00:51:52.480 --> 00:51:54.460 the relationship that 1349 00:51:54.460 --> 00:51:56.420 the educator or the family has with their 1350 00:51:56.420 --> 00:52:00.220 child it should help to think through 1351 00:52:00.220 --> 00:52:01.180 something that 1352 00:52:01.660 --> 00:52:04.820 you can only do if you're crowdsourcing 1353 00:52:04.820 --> 00:52:07.740 an internet's worth of ideas you know as 1354 00:52:07.740 --> 00:52:09.840 part of the conversation that you're having with 1355 00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:12.900 that young person and so that's that's 1356 00:52:12.900 --> 00:52:13.480 how i've tried 1357 00:52:13.480 --> 00:52:17.380 to frame it that every tool is a learning 1358 00:52:17.380 --> 00:52:21.340 experience and it's it's also you know 1359 00:52:21.340 --> 00:52:22.000 like if 1360 00:52:22.140 --> 00:52:24.980 i were to write a textbook about all the 1361 00:52:24.980 --> 00:52:27.020 things in inclusive education that are 1362 00:52:27.020 --> 00:52:28.200 important to me 1363 00:52:28.200 --> 00:52:30.680 each of these little ai tools would be 1364 00:52:30.680 --> 00:52:33.920 one of those things so you know using the 1365 00:52:33.920 --> 00:52:36.900 strengths and interests of students or you know 1366 00:52:36.900 --> 00:52:39.800 learning how to analyze a lesson through 1367 00:52:39.800 --> 00:52:40.580 an executive 1368 00:52:40.580 --> 00:52:42.378 functioning lens and then getting a 1369 00:52:42.378 --> 00:52:45.370 breakdown of the different scaffolds that 1370 00:52:45.370 --> 00:52:45.930 you should build 1371 00:52:45.930 --> 00:52:48.390 into your teaching to meet the executive 1372 00:52:48.390 --> 00:52:50.370 functioning requirements of that lesson 1373 00:52:50.370 --> 00:52:50.910 like 1374 00:52:51.250 --> 00:52:53.210 those are things that it's not doing it 1375 00:52:53.210 --> 00:52:55.430 for you but it's having a conversation 1376 00:52:55.430 --> 00:52:56.750 with you to help 1377 00:52:56.750 --> 00:52:58.770 you become a i think a better educator 1378 00:52:58.770 --> 00:53:01.270 you know as as part of that that process 1379 00:53:01.270 --> 00:53:02.790 and then i started 1380 00:53:02.790 --> 00:53:05.070 to make some tools that were specifically 1381 00:53:05.070 --> 00:53:08.530 for students and some of those are trying 1382 00:53:08.530 --> 00:53:11.590 to help students to visualize their thinking in 1383 00:53:11.670 --> 00:53:14.570 ways that the screen can sometimes feel a 1384 00:53:14.570 --> 00:53:15.673 bit flat and a bit 1385 00:53:15.673 --> 00:53:18.890 text-based. And they often came from 1386 00:53:18.890 --> 00:53:21.750 students asking for tools like this or 1387 00:53:21.750 --> 00:53:22.510 saying, I wish there 1388 00:53:22.510 --> 00:53:24.310 was something that could do this. So for 1389 00:53:24.310 --> 00:53:26.970 example, one of them is called Floating 1390 00:53:26.970 --> 00:53:29.430 Thoughts. And it's 1391 00:53:29.430 --> 00:53:32.810 a tool that you tell the tool, so the 1392 00:53:32.810 --> 00:53:34.630 student tells the tool what they need to 1393 00:53:34.630 --> 00:53:35.650 do. So they 1394 00:53:35.650 --> 00:53:38.330 might say, I need to create a board game 1395 00:53:38.330 --> 00:53:40.670 that represents a local environmental 1396 00:53:40.670 --> 00:53:43.090 need in my area. 1397 00:53:43.090 --> 00:53:46.050 And the tool, if you were saying that to 1398 00:53:46.050 --> 00:53:50.185 ChatGPT, ChatGPT would say, no problem, here's how 1399 00:53:50.185 --> 00:53:52.530 to break down that task and here's what 1400 00:53:52.530 --> 00:53:53.450 you should do. 1401 00:53:53.690 --> 00:53:55.950 But it would be very text-based, it would 1402 00:53:55.950 --> 00:53:57.570 just be a screen of text. 1403 00:53:57.570 --> 00:53:59.890 And what Floating Thoughts does is it 1404 00:53:59.910 --> 00:54:03.490 breaks the task down, puts them in little 1405 00:54:03.490 --> 00:54:04.790 boxes that 1406 00:54:04.790 --> 00:54:07.250 you can color code, you can shuffle the 1407 00:54:07.250 --> 00:54:10.190 boxes around, work out the priority that you'd like 1408 00:54:10.190 --> 00:54:14.430 to use as quite tactile and visual in a 1409 00:54:14.430 --> 00:54:17.290 way that sort of pure text isn't so to 1410 00:54:17.290 --> 00:54:18.450 some for some 1411 00:54:18.450 --> 00:54:21.510 students it can give them a better sense 1412 00:54:21.510 --> 00:54:24.795 of what to prioritize and and the way to approach a task 1413 00:54:24.795 --> 00:54:27.620 and so i've got a few other little tools 1414 00:54:27.620 --> 00:54:29.700 like that that try to be that try to 1415 00:54:29.700 --> 00:54:31.260 visualize even i mean 1416 00:54:31.260 --> 00:54:33.500 one that i was having a play with the 1417 00:54:33.500 --> 00:54:36.960 other day and it came out of a sub stack 1418 00:54:36.960 --> 00:54:38.480 that linda lucas 1419 00:54:38.480 --> 00:54:40.820 who i mentioned earlier who did the hello 1420 00:54:41.240 --> 00:54:44.380 ruby she was sharing some research that 1421 00:54:44.620 --> 00:54:45.440 someone online 1422 00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:49.020 had been doing into having ai tools look 1423 00:54:49.020 --> 00:54:51.700 at the relationship between words and it 1424 00:54:51.700 --> 00:54:53.960 mapped on a 3d 1425 00:54:54.340 --> 00:54:56.760 space so if you imagine like a almost a 1426 00:54:56.760 --> 00:54:59.587 solar system of words that you can rotate 1427 00:54:59.587 --> 00:55:01.070 and zoom in 1428 00:55:01.070 --> 00:55:03.750 on it made all these colorful connections 1429 00:55:03.750 --> 00:55:07.450 between words that rhyme or synonyms you 1430 00:55:07.450 --> 00:55:08.810 know or antonyms 1431 00:55:08.810 --> 00:55:10.430 So all these different relationships 1432 00:55:10.430 --> 00:55:13.330 between aspects of language you could, 1433 00:55:13.330 --> 00:55:16.300 like, rotate and zoom in on. 1434 00:55:16.300 --> 00:55:18.410 I thought, how cool would that be for 1435 00:55:18.410 --> 00:55:22.330 some students to be able to visually, in 1436 00:55:22.330 --> 00:55:24.090 a three-dimensional space, see the 1437 00:55:24.090 --> 00:55:26.210 relationships between different word 1438 00:55:26.210 --> 00:55:28.110 meanings and rhymes? 1439 00:55:28.590 --> 00:55:31.930 And so I essentially took this research 1440 00:55:31.930 --> 00:55:34.507 project and pared it down into a very 1441 00:55:34.507 --> 00:55:35.900 child-friendly 1442 00:55:35.900 --> 00:55:39.140 form and made this little tool called 1443 00:55:39.140 --> 00:55:42.200 Word Space where you can pop different 1444 00:55:42.200 --> 00:55:42.920 words in 1445 00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:46.100 and it pops them in colourful dots in a 3D 1446 00:55:46.100 --> 00:55:47.070 space. 1447 00:55:47.070 --> 00:55:48.960 And again, it won't be useful for every 1448 00:55:48.960 --> 00:55:51.700 student, but for some students who have a 1449 00:55:51.700 --> 00:55:52.240 particularly 1450 00:55:52.240 --> 00:55:54.980 visual way of thinking, a colourful way 1451 00:55:54.980 --> 00:55:57.760 of thinking, you think this is just a different 1452 00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:00.100 way of accessing learning and accessing 1453 00:56:00.100 --> 00:56:03.640 information and how wonderful that someone 1454 00:56:03.860 --> 00:56:07.640 like me who's i'm not a software coder in 1455 00:56:07.640 --> 00:56:09.245 in the standard sense i'm very much a 1456 00:56:09.245 --> 00:56:10.560 product of the vibe 1457 00:56:10.560 --> 00:56:14.700 coding ai space but i can have an idea 1458 00:56:14.700 --> 00:56:19.480 bring it to life and it's um able to be 1459 00:56:19.480 --> 00:56:20.500 directly shared 1460 00:56:20.500 --> 00:56:22.380 with students who can play with it give 1461 00:56:22.540 --> 00:56:25.240 feedback and use it so that's that's the 1462 00:56:25.240 --> 00:56:25.880 sort of stuff that 1463 00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:28.780 i'm doing on on the universal sandpit it's 1464 00:56:28.780 --> 00:56:31.220 all free like my premise from the very 1465 00:56:31.220 --> 00:56:32.260 start was i 1466 00:56:32.260 --> 00:56:34.340 need to make sure there's a low cost for 1467 00:56:34.340 --> 00:56:36.680 me to run them and i never want to have 1468 00:56:36.680 --> 00:56:38.160 any sign up or 1469 00:56:38.160 --> 00:56:41.260 subscription or give your information to 1470 00:56:41.260 --> 00:56:42.625 me i was like i've got to have this be 1471 00:56:42.625 --> 00:56:44.560 something that anyone 1472 00:56:44.560 --> 00:56:46.960 can just load it up on their phone and 1473 00:56:46.960 --> 00:56:49.720 use and put away and they may never come 1474 00:56:49.720 --> 00:56:50.600 back but they were 1475 00:56:50.600 --> 00:56:52.220 able to use it once and got something 1476 00:56:52.220 --> 00:56:54.500 from it you know the the only caveat to 1477 00:56:54.500 --> 00:56:55.660 that is i have put a 1478 00:56:55.660 --> 00:56:58.160 you up on the the apple app store and 1479 00:56:58.160 --> 00:57:00.820 they do cost a couple of dollars um for a 1480 00:57:00.820 --> 00:57:02.160 one-off purchase but 1481 00:57:02.560 --> 00:57:05.040 that that was just so i didn't go broke 1482 00:57:05.040 --> 00:57:07.700 with subscription fees and things but the 1483 00:57:07.700 --> 00:57:08.280 website 1484 00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:11.060 itself will remain free forever so yeah 1485 00:57:11.060 --> 00:57:12.600 yeah well and that was something that i 1486 00:57:12.600 --> 00:57:13.300 was going to ask you 1487 00:57:13.300 --> 00:57:15.155 about because i've used some of these 1488 00:57:15.155 --> 00:57:18.270 tools as an educator i'm excited to 1489 00:57:18.270 --> 00:57:20.190 explore some of these 1490 00:57:20.190 --> 00:57:22.110 tools now as well with students and even 1491 00:57:22.110 --> 00:57:24.170 with my own children but some of them you 1492 00:57:24.170 --> 00:57:26.570 mentioned the strengths and interests there's the task 1493 00:57:26.570 --> 00:57:29.450 analysis uh the udl lesson planner 1494 00:57:29.450 --> 00:57:30.650 differentiation levels 1495 00:57:30.650 --> 00:57:33.350 for students emotional regulation concept 1496 00:57:33.350 --> 00:57:36.910 planner floating thoughts so many tools 1497 00:57:36.910 --> 00:57:38.270 on there it's 1498 00:57:38.270 --> 00:57:40.030 expanded obviously so much from those 1499 00:57:40.030 --> 00:57:43.150 original core ideas and yeah a completely 1500 00:57:43.150 --> 00:57:44.790 free resource 1501 00:57:44.790 --> 00:57:47.170 you've just mentioned kind of why that 1502 00:57:47.170 --> 00:57:49.050 was the case i just think it's such an 1503 00:57:49.050 --> 00:57:51.330 amazing concept and 1504 00:57:51.330 --> 00:57:54.590 something fantastic that i'm sure many 1505 00:57:54.590 --> 00:57:56.250 educators and many students are grateful 1506 00:57:56.250 --> 00:57:57.310 to you for having 1507 00:57:57.310 --> 00:58:00.790 created and ensured is a free resource 1508 00:58:00.790 --> 00:58:03.910 ongoing where where do you see this 1509 00:58:03.910 --> 00:58:05.630 potentially continuing 1510 00:58:05.630 --> 00:58:07.590 to move and make progress or is this 1511 00:58:07.590 --> 00:58:10.310 something that is just sort of bubbling 1512 00:58:10.310 --> 00:58:11.290 away and when you 1513 00:58:11.290 --> 00:58:13.630 see the rhyme or the reason or the need 1514 00:58:13.630 --> 00:58:16.870 there it continues to be added to is is 1515 00:58:16.870 --> 00:58:18.090 there a an 1516 00:58:18.250 --> 00:58:20.570 overarching plan now that you've been 1517 00:58:20.570 --> 00:58:22.630 interacting with Universal Sandbit for a 1518 00:58:22.630 --> 00:58:23.275 while or is it just 1519 00:58:23.275 --> 00:58:26.870 continue to be its own being kind of 1520 00:58:26.870 --> 00:58:27.370 I'd 1521 00:58:27.590 --> 00:58:31.470 I'd like it to be a little lighthouse of 1522 00:58:31.470 --> 00:58:32.750 invention that 1523 00:58:32.750 --> 00:58:35.370 others when they come across it can think 1524 00:58:35.370 --> 00:58:38.130 oh that's something different that AI can 1525 00:58:38.130 --> 00:58:38.770 do you 1526 00:58:38.770 --> 00:58:40.590 know or that's something a little bit 1527 00:58:40.930 --> 00:58:43.590 outside the box I don't have a grand plan 1528 00:58:43.590 --> 00:58:45.270 I really enjoy 1529 00:58:45.270 --> 00:58:48.850 when i get emails from people who tell me 1530 00:58:48.850 --> 00:58:52.490 how they've used things or they're like i wish it 1531 00:58:52.490 --> 00:58:55.310 could do this or or they say i've made 1532 00:58:55.310 --> 00:58:57.393 something that does this in a totally 1533 00:58:57.393 --> 00:58:59.090 different way and i 1534 00:58:59.090 --> 00:59:01.450 think well that's amazing like i i love 1535 00:59:01.450 --> 00:59:05.130 the old internet of the early years when 1536 00:59:05.130 --> 00:59:06.690 it felt very 1537 00:59:06.690 --> 00:59:09.450 rogue you could come across a website 1538 00:59:09.450 --> 00:59:11.630 that had such interesting things on it 1539 00:59:11.630 --> 00:59:12.170 and they were all 1540 00:59:12.170 --> 00:59:14.650 free and they were all a bit some of them 1541 00:59:14.650 --> 00:59:18.130 worked some didn't work and that to me is 1542 00:59:18.130 --> 00:59:19.330 the pleasure of 1543 00:59:19.330 --> 00:59:22.050 the internet instead of you know here's a 1544 00:59:22.050 --> 00:59:24.850 very sanitized subscription-based package 1545 00:59:24.850 --> 00:59:25.710 where you can 1546 00:59:25.710 --> 00:59:28.790 you know for 12 a month get this thing i'm 1547 00:59:28.790 --> 00:59:31.900 like i i want the rogue stuff and i want 1548 00:59:31.900 --> 00:59:32.810 the universal 1549 00:59:32.810 --> 00:59:36.210 sandpit to stay a little bit messy a 1550 00:59:36.210 --> 00:59:38.030 little bit like who knows where it's 1551 00:59:38.030 --> 00:59:39.830 going but i always wanted 1552 00:59:39.830 --> 00:59:44.130 to show examples of as i as ai gets 1553 00:59:44.130 --> 00:59:46.570 better and better and as it becomes 1554 00:59:46.570 --> 00:59:47.630 something that completely 1555 00:59:48.030 --> 00:59:51.090 keeps changing what we expect it to do i 1556 00:59:51.090 --> 00:59:53.370 want to be there to say what if we 1557 00:59:53.370 --> 00:59:54.710 harness it in this way 1558 00:59:54.910 --> 00:59:57.290 you know and what if we took that new 1559 00:59:57.290 --> 00:59:59.830 thing that it can do and we were able to 1560 00:59:59.830 --> 01:00:01.010 adapt it in a really 1561 01:00:01.250 --> 01:00:04.198 useful playful way and i don't want to 1562 01:00:04.198 --> 01:00:07.620 like my my caution with myself is that 1563 01:00:07.860 --> 01:00:08.660 because i read a lot 1564 01:00:08.660 --> 01:00:11.600 of the dystopian side of ai you know and 1565 01:00:11.600 --> 01:00:13.620 different and i think i don't want to be 1566 01:00:13.620 --> 01:00:15.660 an apologist for 1567 01:00:15.660 --> 01:00:18.620 some of the big tech companies who do 1568 01:00:18.620 --> 01:00:21.640 really potentially quite quite dangerous 1569 01:00:21.640 --> 01:00:22.960 things but 1570 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:24.780 then i'm there on the sidelines saying 1571 01:00:24.780 --> 01:00:27.380 don't worry i've found a way that it can 1572 01:00:27.580 --> 01:00:28.340 support children 1573 01:00:28.340 --> 01:00:30.660 with accessibility needs you know so it's 1574 01:00:30.660 --> 01:00:34.720 all okay i i don't want to be an apologist but what 1575 01:00:34.720 --> 01:00:36.818 I do want to do is think I'm a very small 1576 01:00:36.818 --> 01:00:40.510 player in a space where if we can do some 1577 01:00:40.510 --> 01:00:43.150 interesting things with the technology in its 1578 01:00:43.150 --> 01:00:45.530 emerging state as it still continues to 1579 01:00:45.530 --> 01:00:46.810 grow, I'd like to 1580 01:00:46.810 --> 01:00:49.810 represent that instead of not being a 1581 01:00:49.810 --> 01:00:51.850 part of the conversation, you know, and 1582 01:00:51.850 --> 01:00:52.850 instead of just 1583 01:00:53.250 --> 01:00:56.130 being in another space where we're 1584 01:00:56.130 --> 01:00:58.070 implementing very sort of generalized 1585 01:00:58.070 --> 01:01:00.040 ways of using it. So 1586 01:01:00.040 --> 01:01:03.490 if it can stay lively and experimental 1587 01:01:03.490 --> 01:01:07.030 and do interesting things in the future i'll be very happy 1588 01:01:07.030 --> 01:01:10.050 for sure no it's it's a fantastic 1589 01:01:10.050 --> 01:01:11.757 resource so i hope that it just keeps 1590 01:01:11.757 --> 01:01:13.260 being added to in 1591 01:01:13.260 --> 01:01:15.440 ways that are benefiting people like it 1592 01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:17.460 is currently because yeah it's such a 1593 01:01:17.780 --> 01:01:18.300 such a great 1594 01:01:18.300 --> 01:01:21.420 tool and resource and just the idea of 1595 01:01:21.480 --> 01:01:23.200 how it's come about and what it's there 1596 01:01:23.200 --> 01:01:23.740 for i think is 1597 01:01:23.740 --> 01:01:24.440 really special 1598 01:01:31.700 --> 01:01:32.820 just one last thing i 1599 01:01:32.820 --> 01:01:35.440 guess if there's a parent or an educator 1600 01:01:35.440 --> 01:01:36.260 out there who 1601 01:01:36.500 --> 01:01:40.420 is resistant to using ai at the moment 1602 01:01:40.420 --> 01:01:43.400 and unsure of the benefits or how they 1603 01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:44.312 can harness it in a way 1604 01:01:44.312 --> 01:01:48.070 that has to do with those ideas that you 1605 01:01:48.070 --> 01:01:50.730 mentioned before of rhythm insight and 1606 01:01:50.730 --> 01:01:52.650 play what's one piece 1607 01:01:52.650 --> 01:01:55.010 of advice that you would give to somebody 1608 01:01:55.010 --> 01:01:58.530 in that stage of resistance to maybe 1609 01:01:58.530 --> 01:01:59.950 encourage them to 1610 01:01:59.950 --> 01:02:01.690 find out what some of these benefits 1611 01:02:01.690 --> 01:02:04.810 might be for either themselves or their 1612 01:02:04.810 --> 01:02:06.050 child whether they be 1613 01:02:06.050 --> 01:02:07.190 neurodiverse or not 1614 01:02:07.210 --> 01:02:09.310 i'd say think of it 1615 01:02:09.390 --> 01:02:13.310 like a telescope that you're pointing out 1616 01:02:13.310 --> 01:02:13.990 into the solar 1617 01:02:14.010 --> 01:02:17.457 system and you're not just using say a 1618 01:02:17.457 --> 01:02:20.800 google or a search engine like you would 1619 01:02:20.800 --> 01:02:21.400 have in the past 1620 01:02:21.580 --> 01:02:24.200 that you put a question out there and you 1621 01:02:24.200 --> 01:02:27.000 get a few things back that maybe relate 1622 01:02:27.000 --> 01:02:27.660 to you or maybe 1623 01:02:27.660 --> 01:02:30.320 don't relate to you you're using a 1624 01:02:30.320 --> 01:02:33.040 telescope that you ask a question of the 1625 01:02:33.040 --> 01:02:34.220 universe it looks 1626 01:02:34.220 --> 01:02:36.060 through every star system it looks 1627 01:02:36.060 --> 01:02:39.020 through every planet and it customizes a 1628 01:02:39.020 --> 01:02:40.460 result that's so 1629 01:02:40.460 --> 01:02:43.140 individualized to your context that you've 1630 01:02:43.140 --> 01:02:45.020 just gotten back all this information 1631 01:02:45.020 --> 01:02:45.880 that you you can 1632 01:02:45.880 --> 01:02:48.040 choose what to do with you know you can 1633 01:02:48.040 --> 01:02:51.494 ignore it you can keep some of it you can 1634 01:02:51.494 --> 01:02:53.130 think about it 1635 01:02:53.130 --> 01:02:56.370 use it for later but do think of it as 1636 01:02:56.370 --> 01:02:59.170 a tool that you've got control over you 1637 01:02:59.170 --> 01:03:00.070 know you're you're not 1638 01:03:00.070 --> 01:03:02.210 you don't need to put your life into it 1639 01:03:02.650 --> 01:03:04.890 you don't need to use it to replace 1640 01:03:04.890 --> 01:03:05.730 anything that you're 1641 01:03:05.730 --> 01:03:09.730 doing but if you can see it in a capacity 1642 01:03:09.730 --> 01:03:13.190 that you're crowdsourcing a whole world of thoughts 1643 01:03:13.550 --> 01:03:15.510 like the really the the history of 1644 01:03:15.510 --> 01:03:18.370 thought is how i think of it if you've 1645 01:03:18.370 --> 01:03:20.150 got a child who's autistic 1646 01:03:20.150 --> 01:03:23.590 or neurodivergent or with any other 1647 01:03:23.590 --> 01:03:25.125 inclusive education needs. 1648 01:03:25.125 --> 01:03:28.420 If you go to your school and talk to an 1649 01:03:28.420 --> 01:03:29.480 educator there, 1650 01:03:29.820 --> 01:03:31.480 you'll get their experience, which is 1651 01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:32.380 wonderful. 1652 01:03:32.380 --> 01:03:33.980 You'll get your experience, which is 1653 01:03:33.980 --> 01:03:34.840 wonderful. 1654 01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:37.860 But you're playing in a very small pool, 1655 01:03:38.060 --> 01:03:38.560 potentially, 1656 01:03:38.560 --> 01:03:41.480 of experience and information. 1657 01:03:41.480 --> 01:03:43.560 Now, like we said, something like Google, 1658 01:03:43.880 --> 01:03:45.940 you're going to get some Facebook posts 1659 01:03:45.940 --> 01:03:47.740 and blogs and things. 1660 01:03:47.940 --> 01:03:48.740 That's great. 1661 01:03:48.740 --> 01:03:49.840 They're all useful. 1662 01:03:49.840 --> 01:03:54.260 But AI is just crowdsourcing on such a 1663 01:03:54.260 --> 01:03:55.900 different level, and the telescope is 1664 01:03:56.080 --> 01:03:58.320 bringing back such a universe of 1665 01:03:58.320 --> 01:04:00.016 information that is then, like we say, 1666 01:04:00.016 --> 01:04:02.190 being individualized to your context, 1667 01:04:02.550 --> 01:04:04.550 that I feel, if I'm being a little bit 1668 01:04:04.550 --> 01:04:07.050 rogue at times in saying this, it would 1669 01:04:07.050 --> 01:04:09.870 be that you could actually say, is it 1670 01:04:09.870 --> 01:04:12.410 ethical to not use AI? 1671 01:04:12.410 --> 01:04:14.850 If AI can give you so much more 1672 01:04:14.850 --> 01:04:16.910 information about how to support your 1673 01:04:16.910 --> 01:04:19.850 child or the student compared to not 1674 01:04:19.850 --> 01:04:23.190 using it, it would be, I mean, you could 1675 01:04:23.190 --> 01:04:25.570 say, like a doctor in the health 1676 01:04:25.570 --> 01:04:28.410 profession, if they didn't go to 1677 01:04:28.410 --> 01:04:30.870 conferences and they didn't read research 1678 01:04:30.870 --> 01:04:32.690 journals and they just said, well, you 1679 01:04:32.690 --> 01:04:34.972 know, I think I know how to do this 1680 01:04:34.972 --> 01:04:38.200 surgery or to diagnose this patient, you'd 1681 01:04:38.200 --> 01:04:39.360 say, I don't think so. 1682 01:04:39.360 --> 01:04:41.440 you're not using the best and the latest 1683 01:04:41.440 --> 01:04:44.020 information that's out there. But if that doctor 1684 01:04:44.020 --> 01:04:49.580 uses AI in an educated, informed way to 1685 01:04:49.580 --> 01:04:52.640 suddenly crowdsource doctors' experiences 1686 01:04:52.640 --> 01:04:53.400 from all over 1687 01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:55.780 the world and the latest medical 1688 01:04:55.780 --> 01:04:58.940 breakthroughs and cross-cultural and 1689 01:04:58.940 --> 01:05:00.120 cross-topic references 1690 01:05:00.120 --> 01:05:01.860 that are coming through, you think that's 1691 01:05:01.860 --> 01:05:04.700 a really well-informed doctor. And I think the 1692 01:05:04.800 --> 01:05:07.710 same is true for parents and for teachers 1693 01:05:07.710 --> 01:05:11.060 not to put the pressure on everybody to 1694 01:05:11.060 --> 01:05:12.440 think you're a 1695 01:05:12.440 --> 01:05:14.900 bad parent if you don't use ai to consult 1696 01:05:14.900 --> 01:05:16.660 every single part of what you need to do 1697 01:05:16.660 --> 01:05:17.340 as a parent 1698 01:05:17.340 --> 01:05:20.600 or as as a teacher you're you're not a 1699 01:05:20.600 --> 01:05:23.800 good teacher if you don't use ai that's definitely 1700 01:05:23.800 --> 01:05:28.120 not true but i do think to myself what 1701 01:05:28.120 --> 01:05:31.260 are the ethics of using it and not using 1702 01:05:31.260 --> 01:05:32.200 it and what 1703 01:05:32.200 --> 01:05:34.920 might be missed if we're not at least 1704 01:05:34.920 --> 01:05:37.300 understanding what this space contains 1705 01:05:37.720 --> 01:05:39.420 and what could be gained 1706 01:05:39.420 --> 01:05:42.184 by just investigating investigating in in 1707 01:05:42.184 --> 01:05:45.650 a way that feels safe and sensible for 1708 01:05:45.650 --> 01:05:46.870 each of us and 1709 01:05:46.870 --> 01:05:50.670 not to listen to what the the crowd is 1710 01:05:50.670 --> 01:05:52.910 saying about ai or what the headlines are 1711 01:05:52.910 --> 01:05:53.630 saying but 1712 01:05:54.090 --> 01:05:55.890 actually sit down and have a little play 1713 01:05:55.890 --> 01:05:58.650 yourself and then i used to say to people 1714 01:05:58.650 --> 01:05:59.450 with the walk and 1715 01:05:59.450 --> 01:06:02.770 talk side, just try a little voice 1716 01:06:02.770 --> 01:06:05.550 conversation, say a few words, see how it 1717 01:06:05.550 --> 01:06:07.350 feels. And I think 1718 01:06:07.350 --> 01:06:09.810 people in their quieter moments or their 1719 01:06:09.810 --> 01:06:12.830 more reflective moments with this tech 1720 01:06:13.270 --> 01:06:14.030 can see a lot 1721 01:06:14.030 --> 01:06:15.882 of potential that maybe you don't always 1722 01:06:15.882 --> 01:06:18.120 hear about if you're just going off 1723 01:06:18.120 --> 01:06:19.180 headlines. I'm 1724 01:06:19.180 --> 01:06:21.240 cautiously optimistic in where it's all 1725 01:06:21.240 --> 01:06:24.320 going. It still inspires me every single 1726 01:06:24.320 --> 01:06:26.340 day while I'm 1727 01:06:26.340 --> 01:06:30.620 also completely you know savvy to the the 1728 01:06:30.620 --> 01:06:32.680 more difficult more challenging ethical 1729 01:06:32.680 --> 01:06:33.420 spaces that 1730 01:06:33.420 --> 01:06:36.880 it occupies i think both both things can 1731 01:06:36.880 --> 01:06:39.600 be true it can be both a potential 1732 01:06:39.600 --> 01:06:41.420 environmental challenge 1733 01:06:41.420 --> 01:06:45.300 economic workplace challenge social challenge 1734 01:06:46.240 --> 01:06:47.360 all the challenges are 1735 01:06:47.360 --> 01:06:48.155 absolutely going to be there 1736 01:06:48.155 --> 01:06:51.780 as a technology but that's not a reason 1737 01:06:51.780 --> 01:06:54.940 to not try to extract goodness from it 1738 01:06:55.340 --> 01:06:56.260 and the inclusive 1739 01:06:56.260 --> 01:06:58.680 benefits that could support our students 1740 01:06:58.680 --> 01:06:59.700 right now 1741 01:06:59.700 --> 01:07:02.500 definitely yeah and there's I 1742 01:07:02.500 --> 01:07:03.240 know so much 1743 01:07:03.240 --> 01:07:05.540 more that we could explore in this space 1744 01:07:05.540 --> 01:07:08.300 and so much more that's going to I guess 1745 01:07:08.300 --> 01:07:09.020 be uncovered 1746 01:07:09.020 --> 01:07:12.520 in the the weeks months and years from 1747 01:07:12.520 --> 01:07:14.780 here but I really appreciate your your 1748 01:07:14.780 --> 01:07:15.760 take on it and your 1749 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:18.400 understanding of of the use of AR to this 1750 01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:20.700 point and the benefits that you've found 1751 01:07:20.700 --> 01:07:21.322 to this point 1752 01:07:21.322 --> 01:07:24.430 both in your own life and that of 1753 01:07:24.570 --> 01:07:26.210 educators and students that you've worked 1754 01:07:26.210 --> 01:07:27.610 with as well. 1755 01:07:27.610 --> 01:07:29.350 For people who would like to find out 1756 01:07:29.350 --> 01:07:30.770 more about the work that you're doing, 1757 01:07:30.770 --> 01:07:32.490 I know there's a lot on Universal Sandpit 1758 01:07:32.490 --> 01:07:34.710 in terms of some of your talks 1759 01:07:34.710 --> 01:07:36.930 and what you've written and other 1760 01:07:36.930 --> 01:07:38.750 recordings as well that you have. 1761 01:07:38.750 --> 01:07:40.230 There's obviously the tools on Universal 1762 01:07:40.230 --> 01:07:41.310 Sandpit as well. 1763 01:07:41.470 --> 01:07:44.050 What other spaces and places can we find 1764 01:07:44.050 --> 01:07:45.110 to keep updated 1765 01:07:45.110 --> 01:07:46.790 with what it is that you're doing, the 1766 01:07:46.790 --> 01:07:47.470 work you're doing, 1767 01:07:47.470 --> 01:07:49.590 and what you're exploring in this space? 1768 01:07:49.590 --> 01:07:52.630 Thank you, Josh. I definitely put the 1769 01:07:52.630 --> 01:07:53.930 best of what I do up on the Universal 1770 01:07:53.930 --> 01:07:57.950 Sandpit. I would also say that on 1771 01:07:57.950 --> 01:08:02.010 LinkedIn, I try to stay current on 1772 01:08:02.010 --> 01:08:05.450 LinkedIn. I post at least every week. And 1773 01:08:05.450 --> 01:08:08.130 I often put little experiments up there 1774 01:08:08.130 --> 01:08:10.010 that maybe I wouldn't put on the Sandpit 1775 01:08:10.010 --> 01:08:11.750 because they're just a one-off thing that 1776 01:08:11.750 --> 01:08:13.730 I've tried and played around with. 1777 01:08:13.730 --> 01:08:16.670 i find that it's it's interesting and i 1778 01:08:16.670 --> 01:08:18.350 mean you could have a whole conversation 1779 01:08:18.350 --> 01:08:19.150 around the 1780 01:08:19.150 --> 01:08:22.590 algorithms and social media but when i 1781 01:08:22.590 --> 01:08:24.890 put little experiments up on linkedin 1782 01:08:24.890 --> 01:08:25.695 that i think are really 1783 01:08:25.695 --> 01:08:30.120 fascinating with ai but they're very left 1784 01:08:30.120 --> 01:08:33.540 of center i get no engagement whatsoever 1785 01:08:33.540 --> 01:08:34.960 but the 1786 01:08:34.960 --> 01:08:36.880 moment that the moment that you mentioned 1787 01:08:36.880 --> 01:08:40.300 something about you know gee aren't children 1788 01:08:40.300 --> 01:08:42.940 you know doing poor with their reading i 1789 01:08:42.940 --> 01:08:45.120 wonder if it relates to ai you know you 1790 01:08:45.120 --> 01:08:45.720 get a thousand 1791 01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:49.520 people commenting so yeah i i just say 1792 01:08:49.520 --> 01:08:51.880 that that if if people are interested in 1793 01:08:51.880 --> 01:08:52.680 seeing some of the 1794 01:08:52.680 --> 01:08:56.100 more niche quirky little one-off things 1795 01:08:56.100 --> 01:08:58.600 that i'm doing with ai and education i do 1796 01:08:58.600 --> 01:08:59.160 put stuff up on 1797 01:08:59.160 --> 01:09:01.680 linkedin all the time so between the 1798 01:09:01.680 --> 01:09:03.420 universal cnp and linkedin you'll 1799 01:09:03.420 --> 01:09:04.520 definitely get a sense of what 1800 01:09:04.520 --> 01:09:05.020 i'm doing 1801 01:09:05.020 --> 01:09:07.020 yeah no that's fantastic and i 1802 01:09:07.020 --> 01:09:08.680 do encourage people to go and have a look at it 1803 01:09:08.680 --> 01:09:11.200 Because, like I say, it is a really great 1804 01:09:11.200 --> 01:09:12.300 space. 1805 01:09:12.300 --> 01:09:15.600 And I thank you, Craig, for creating it 1806 01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:16.820 and sharing it. 1807 01:09:16.820 --> 01:09:18.140 And, again, for sharing your thoughts and 1808 01:09:18.140 --> 01:09:19.000 ideas with us today. 1809 01:09:19.000 --> 01:09:20.680 I really, really appreciate you jumping 1810 01:09:20.680 --> 01:09:22.060 on the podcast. 1811 01:09:22.060 --> 01:09:24.980 And, yeah, let us know what other things 1812 01:09:24.980 --> 01:09:27.280 you find out and explore over the next 1813 01:09:27.280 --> 01:09:27.820 little while. 1814 01:09:27.820 --> 01:09:30.160 Because I'm very, very intrigued and keen 1815 01:09:30.160 --> 01:09:31.960 to keep up to date with what you keep 1816 01:09:31.960 --> 01:09:32.840 finding out. 1817 01:09:32.840 --> 01:09:34.330 So, thanks again. Appreciate it. 1818 01:09:34.330 --> 01:09:35.840 Well, thank you so much, Josh. 1819 01:09:35.840 --> 01:09:37.400 Thank you for having me on the podcast. 1820 01:09:37.400 --> 01:09:38.820 It's been wonderful to have this 1821 01:09:38.820 --> 01:09:40.720 conversation with you and look forward to 1822 01:09:40.720 --> 01:09:41.480 keeping in touch. 1823 01:09:57.400 --> 01:09:58.920 Big thank you to Craig for such an 1824 01:09:58.920 --> 01:10:00.320 interesting and thought-provoking 1825 01:10:00.320 --> 01:10:01.200 conversation. 1826 01:10:01.380 --> 01:10:03.240 I think that AI is one of those topics 1827 01:10:03.240 --> 01:10:04.700 where we probably don't have all the 1828 01:10:04.700 --> 01:10:05.220 answers yet 1829 01:10:05.220 --> 01:10:06.900 and perhaps that's exactly why it's worth 1830 01:10:06.900 --> 01:10:08.140 continuing to ask the questions. 1831 01:10:08.140 --> 01:10:10.900 There are so many ideas and tools that 1832 01:10:10.900 --> 01:10:12.000 Craig mentions throughout this 1833 01:10:12.000 --> 01:10:12.520 conversation 1834 01:10:12.520 --> 01:10:15.040 that are worth exploring for ourselves, 1835 01:10:15.040 --> 01:10:16.600 not necessarily because we know exactly 1836 01:10:16.600 --> 01:10:18.760 where they'll take us, but because they might 1837 01:10:18.760 --> 01:10:20.320 help us understand what is possible. 1838 01:10:20.720 --> 01:10:22.120 And I think the idea of using a double 1839 01:10:22.120 --> 01:10:25.220 empathy lens is particularly important as we navigate 1840 01:10:25.220 --> 01:10:27.380 this space, taking the time to understand 1841 01:10:27.380 --> 01:10:30.060 how other people might experience and use 1842 01:10:30.060 --> 01:10:31.920 technology differently from us. 1843 01:10:32.360 --> 01:10:33.600 If something from today's conversation 1844 01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:35.760 made you stop and think, we'd love to hear what 1845 01:10:35.760 --> 01:10:36.440 it was. 1846 01:10:36.960 --> 01:10:38.600 And if you enjoyed the episode, you can 1847 01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:40.780 follow or subscribe to the Parent Teacher Interview 1848 01:10:40.780 --> 01:10:42.242 Podcast wherever you listen to your 1849 01:10:42.242 --> 01:10:44.770 podcasts and find us on Instagram at 1850 01:10:45.130 --> 01:10:46.770 parentteacherinterviewpod. 1851 01:10:46.770 --> 01:10:48.090 And remember, there is no booking 1852 01:10:48.090 --> 01:10:50.150 required and we're looking forward to 1853 01:10:50.150 --> 01:10:50.850 seeing you along 1854 01:10:50.990 --> 01:10:52.700 at the next parent-teacher interview.